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 Post subject: Roanoke Shops closure opportunities?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:39 am 

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 1:12 am
Posts: 124
With the Roanoke Shops facing certain closure, many possible opportunities are possible. Yes it is sad, however it also brings the potential for good things for the facilities if visions and determination are put into it. They designed and built locomotives there so it could turn into a rehabilitation and reconstruction facility (and possibly small scale new production) for steam and diesel locomotives as well as rolling stock. I do not have funds, ability, or concrete plans just able to see the potential of the facility after use by the NS for other rail purposes. For those with more intricate knowledge of modern railroad operation and mentality what do you see as possible opportunities for the shops other then demolition or stuffed and mounted as a museum?

Thank You

Josh


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 Post subject: Re: Roanoke Shops closure opportunities?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:49 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
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Location: Tucson, Arizona
Any consideration of preservation of a site like Roanoke must be tempered by reality. Likely the ground there is contaminated and any redevelopment will require removal of the contaminated soil at the expense of the developer. The necessary preparation work and removal can easily run into the millions of dollars range.

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 Post subject: Re: Roanoke Shops closure opportunities?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:23 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
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Are there any steam era shops left?


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 Post subject: Re: Roanoke Shops closure opportunities?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:31 am
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Location: South Carolina
Pretty much the entire complex is steam-era.

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 Post subject: Re: Roanoke Shops closure opportunities?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 113
Quote:
Any consideration of preservation of a site like Roanoke must be tempered by reality. Likely the ground there is contaminated and any redevelopment will require removal of the contaminated soil at the expense of the developer. The necessary preparation work and removal can easily run into the millions of dollars range


No - this is a common misconception. For most railroad sites that would be re-purposed as a museum, it is possible to use a risk based remediation strategy that would limit soil remediation to areas where soil disturbance or material exposure is most likely.

Complete removal of the contaminated soil is only required when the site is going to be re-purposed for a use where exposure is likely (such as for residential development) where contaminants are moving within the site, or for highly toxic contaminants (rarely in most railroad sites).

A museum use in some fashion for the Roanoke shops (even if the buildings are used for off-site storage for an indefinite period of time) could be a real win-win in terms of reducing costs for the railroad and improving the functionality of the museum. Mustering the resources to adequately assess the risks and develop a plan that is workable to all parties takes a serious commitment.


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 Post subject: Re: Roanoke Shops closure opportunities?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:51 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 598
It would be pretty cool if one of the buildings that 611 was built or serviced in could become her new home in Roanoke. Since there is already a fundraising plan in place for such a thing.. could be interesting timing. A lot of stars would have to align but since it’s roanoke that could happen (reference to the star city!).


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 Post subject: Re: Roanoke Shops closure opportunities?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:54 am
Posts: 26
Thomas Cornillie wrote:
Complete removal of the contaminated soil is only required when the site is going to be re-purposed for a use where exposure is likely (such as for residential development) ....


In sites such as this, it is common for it to be redeveloped into a business park or warehouse site. Usually they can grade the site such that no soils have to leave the property.


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 Post subject: Re: Roanoke Shops closure opportunities?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:15 am
Posts: 554
Is the roundhouse close enough to the center of town to do a multi-purpose reuse like they did with the CN Roundhouse in Toronto?

If you are not familiar part of it is a museum, including the turntable and exterior displays and the rest of the roundhouse is used by a brewery and a restaurant.
http://torontorailwaymuseum.com/trm2018/


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 Post subject: Re: Roanoke Shops closure opportunities?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 960
Location: Warszawa, Polska
crij wrote:
Is the roundhouse close enough to the center of town to do a multi-purpose reuse like they did with the CN Roundhouse in Toronto?

If you are not familiar part of it is a museum, including the turntable and exterior displays and the rest of the roundhouse is used by a brewery and a restaurant.
http://torontorailwaymuseum.com/trm2018/


All the equipment sits outside and is constantly vandalized. Not a good model to emulate...

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 Post subject: Re: Roanoke Shops closure opportunities?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:09 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:08 am
Posts: 106
Location: Johnstown, PA
Any word of an auction of the machine tools, cranes, stock, mobile equipment etc?


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 Post subject: Re: Roanoke Shops closure opportunities?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:15 am
Posts: 554
joe6167 wrote:
crij wrote:
Is the roundhouse close enough to the center of town to do a multi-purpose reuse like they did with the CN Roundhouse in Toronto?

If you are not familiar part of it is a museum, including the turntable and exterior displays and the rest of the roundhouse is used by a brewery and a restaurant.
http://torontorailwaymuseum.com/trm2018/


All the equipment sits outside and is constantly vandalized. Not a good model to emulate...


Haven't been there, but thought it was a good idea for exposure and multi-use, maybe someone can do better on the vandalism prevention. Outdoor equipment displays are a given for most museums.


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 Post subject: Re: Roanoke Shops closure opportunities?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:14 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 960
Location: Warszawa, Polska
crij wrote:
joe6167 wrote:
crij wrote:
Is the roundhouse close enough to the center of town to do a multi-purpose reuse like they did with the CN Roundhouse in Toronto?

If you are not familiar part of it is a museum, including the turntable and exterior displays and the rest of the roundhouse is used by a brewery and a restaurant.
http://torontorailwaymuseum.com/trm2018/


All the equipment sits outside and is constantly vandalized. Not a good model to emulate...


Haven't been there, but thought it was a good idea for exposure and multi-use, maybe someone can do better on the vandalism prevention. Outdoor equipment displays are a given for most museums.


In fact there one of the engines was attacked just the other day (they busted the cover off the stack for some reason). All the equipment is totally out in the open, there is no security, no fencing, nothing. And nobody cares enough to try to catch these vandals.

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 Post subject: Re: Roanoke Shops closure opportunities?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:33 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1014
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Thomas Cornillie wrote:
Quote:
Any consideration of preservation of a site like Roanoke must be tempered by reality. Likely the ground there is contaminated and any redevelopment will require removal of the contaminated soil at the expense of the developer. The necessary preparation work and removal can easily run into the millions of dollars range


No - this is a common misconception. For most railroad sites that would be re-purposed as a museum, it is possible to use a risk based remediation strategy that would limit soil remediation to areas where soil disturbance or material exposure is most likely.

Complete removal of the contaminated soil is only required when the site is going to be re-purposed for a use where exposure is likely (such as for residential development) where contaminants are moving within the site, or for highly toxic contaminants (rarely in most railroad sites).

A museum use in some fashion for the Roanoke shops (even if the buildings are used for off-site storage for an indefinite period of time) could be a real win-win in terms of reducing costs for the railroad and improving the functionality of the museum. Mustering the resources to adequately assess the risks and develop a plan that is workable to all parties takes a serious commitment.


Actually, complete remediation is also required if it is determined that rainwater leaching through the soil at the site is being contaminated by the pollutants in the soil, regardless of what development is going on at the site. Risk based assessment doesn’t apply there. That said, anyone who is serious about acquiring the site needs to have an attorney assist them to assess their potential liability in acquiring the site and should insist on the seller providing them documentation regarding the ground water quality. Of course, remediation is often a requirement written into the contract.

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 Post subject: Re: Roanoke Shops closure opportunities?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:42 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:01 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Chattanooga
Couldn’t NS donate a building or two for museum purposes and get a sizable tax write off for it?

It would be something to put 611, 1218, and 2156 indoors and out of the weather. A fence could be put up around the property to prevent vandalism. A mainline and a large ditch may be on one side of the property. Vandals don’t seem to bother things much at Spencer.

The site is used now by employees so why would the soil have to be made any cleaner than it is today? Isn’t most of the potential area to be used covered in concrete anyway?


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 Post subject: Re: Roanoke Shops closure opportunities?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:46 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1014
Location: Tucson, Arizona
DavidKaplan wrote:
Couldn’t NS donate a building or two for museum purposes and get a sizable tax write off for it?

It would be something to put 611, 1218, and 2156 indoors and out of the weather. A fence could be put up around the property to prevent vandalism. A mainline and a large ditch may be on one side of the property. Vandals don’t seem to bother things much at Spencer.

The site is used now by employees so why would the soil have to be made any cleaner than it is today? Isn’t most of the potential area to be used covered in concrete anyway?


NS could take a write off by donating part of the site to the museum. However, the museum would need to agree with the railroad as to who would assume the responsibility for any claims regarding pollutants.

Concrete and asphalt are good rain barriers, but they break down over time. This allows water to leach into the soil. When water leaches into the soil, it will pick up certain contaminants-remember that the soil is essentially a filter for the underground water table, from which water is drawn by wells. This can impact water users that are located far from the property. This is why gas stations are required to have underground capture systems that will trap any fuel that might leak from an underground storage tank and why tank removal is required when a gas station is permanently closed.

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