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 Post subject: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:56 pm 

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http://www.euronews.com/2017/12/18/amtr ... asualties-


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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:52 pm 

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Live stream now
https://www.cbsnews.com/live/?ftag=CNM-00-10aac7b

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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:52 pm 

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This is Talgo equipment, for those who do not know. It is single axle suspension, with articulation. And it appears to have been in push mode.

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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:29 pm 

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Probably not in push. You only see the Genesis that was on the rear; apparently there was a new SC44 on the opposite end, not one of those peculiar caterpillar cab cars.

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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:43 pm 

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Siemens 1402 was on the front and is down on I-5. The Amtrak loco still on the tracks was at the rear.
Reports have the train going 81mph. Some rail sources from the area say the curve was rated for 30mph. If true, the result would be very similar to what we see. I have investigated and cleaned up several similar derailments over the years.

Bart


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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:02 pm 

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Appears as if lead unit may have gone off the 'high side', a bit more indication of excessive speed on the curve:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:23 pm 

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This was the first day of the Port Defiance bypass around tunnels and congestion on the BNSF old GN using a former NP line. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Defiance_Bypass

I saw a report that it was going 81 in a 79, which shouldn't be enough to explain the derailment.


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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:45 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
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Here is the Washington DOT map of the bypass:

Image

This particular curve is apparently at the bottom of a couple of miles of almost 2% downgrade; as a poster on another list said 'a bad place to lose situational awareness'. There is almost certainly a speed restriction on that curve, which almost all sources I've read say was 30mph; the rebuild may have spiraled/superelevated it for a few more mph with the Talgo equipment. The "79mph" speed limit argues strongly to me that PTC was not activated, which seems ridiculous for an 800 million dollar project ... but as with Bostian's mistake, it seems pretty clear that PTC would have prevented or reduced the severity of this, perhaps a couple of different ways. I will be particularly interested to hear the excuses when they start.

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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:05 pm 

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Local news has apparently made contact with an engineer, Robert Bregent, and done a phone interview with him. Here is some of the discussion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZVaRUBceLg

'Tested over and over and over again', as recently as 3:00am.

I am depressed to see 'major railroads' being blamed for the absence of PTC here.

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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:41 pm 

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No PTC. I think it is clear that the state rushed to put the line in service as cheaply as possible.


Last edited by PMC on Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:49 pm 

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Location: Danbury, CT
PTC reportedly not activated at the time as quoted by multiple news sources. Also, a screen shot from a news outlet provided on another forum clearly shows posted speed limit signs of 30 mph. Speed of 81 mph reported by railroad’s “train tracker” website or app is apparently GPS based and it is unknown of how often or how quickly it updates. Considering that speed did not come directly from an event recorder, I’d say that information leaves room for doubt regarding the time and location the “tracker” recorded that speed. State PD reports twelve cars and two locomotives involved with everything on the ground except the trailing unit. No fatalities on the highway. All fatalities were passengers of the train. This is unfortunately, a mass casualty incident NTSB team is en-route.

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Last edited by Mount Royal on Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:13 pm 

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Location: South Carolina
The NY Post is reporting that there was an object on the tracks:

https://nypost.com/2017/12/18/object-on ... erailment/

Judging from the photos, I find it hard to believe that train was traveling at 81 MPH. At 81 MPH, I would think you'd have a debris field half a mile long.

I saw the aftermath of an 89 MPH Amtrak derailment after it struck a truck carrying power poles near here in the 1970's, and it wiped out several hundred yards of CSX (then Seaboard Coast Line) mainline.

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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:18 pm 

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Radio from the train after the wreck, not sure if it is the engineer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amOowyIGPV8


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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:44 pm 

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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:04 pm 

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Location: Thomaston & White Plains
That last picture says it all: speed sign, knocked-down signal and no track damage to speak of.

A sad day in so many ways.

Howard P.

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