The Nevada Northern Railroad Museum is restoring one of it's ACF built boxcars. The car was purchased in 1912, our question is what color should we paint it? Was there a standard boxcar red that ACF used? If so, is there a similiar paint now? Thanks

bassett@elko.net

> The Nevada Northern Railroad Museum is
> restoring one of it's ACF built boxcars. The
> car was purchased in 1912, our question is
> what color should we paint it? Was there a
> standard boxcar red that ACF used? If so, is
> there a similiar paint now? Thanks

Not being an expert on such things, but having read many articles over the years, including "Model Railroader" back in the mid '60's, the subject comes to this...back then, paint was made by many suppliers using natural clays and ores, and industrial red paints varied greatly. This due to the variety of the natural pigments. I have seen this discussion on historic forums on "Barn Paint"...same story, back then, they didn't have bright red barns either. Are there any thick enough paint chips that you can sand off the oxidation, that may give you a clue. Also be careful with custom mixing, years ago, the Colorado Railroad Museum had some boxcar red mixed up locally for the large addition in the early '70's of D&RGW freight equipment. Once in the sun, it all turned purple. You might contact them, they have a supplier now of some good weather resistant paint that works. Good luck in the search.


nwstaybolt@reachone.com

> The Nevada Northern Railroad Museum is
> restoring one of it's ACF built boxcars. The
> car was purchased in 1912, our question is
> what color should we paint it? Was there a
> standard boxcar red that ACF used? If so, is
> there a similiar paint now? Thanks

This is a hard call if you cannot get color chips that are specific to the railroad or find any of the old Dupont numbers mentioned in any of the RR's paint records. Up until recently, Dupont (if you could find the right people) still had many of those old paint numbers and formulas and was able to supply me with "real" Pullman green, at least, as the Pullman Company viewed it.)

You can always try calling Dupont's help line and telling them you want to talk to the guy who knows about old railroad paints. If you can find him, he (several years ago) had a list of railroads and paint numbers. Unfortunately, I found him by accident and no longer have my records of his name and number.

If you think the road used a standard boxcar red, as opposed to the darker mineral red that roads like the GN used on a lot of freight equipment, you can get a box car red paint from a hobby store (like scalecoat #13 box car red or Floquil #11074 box car red) and then have it matched at the place where you are geting the paint for your rolling stock.

When it comes to caboose red, I have also heard the story about its connection to barn red. An archivist who worked for Devoe said that his company was the one who developed the original caboose red; he said a railroad asked for a paint similar to that being used by farmers and ranchers. Unfortunately, the archive information was out of this guy's control, so he could never get me the formula.

--Malcolm

malcolmrcampbell@cs.com

> This is a hard call if you cannot get color
> chips that are specific to the railroad or
> find any of the old Dupont numbers mentioned
> in any of the RR's paint records. Up until
> recently, Dupont (if you could find the
> right people) still had many of those old
> paint numbers and formulas and was able to
> supply me with "real" Pullman
> green, at least, as the Pullman Company
> viewed it.)

> You can always try calling Dupont's help
> line and telling them you want to talk to
> the guy who knows about old railroad paints.
> If you can find him, he (several years ago)
> had a list of railroads and paint numbers.
> Unfortunately, I found him by accident and
> no longer have my records of his name and
> number.

> If you think the road used a standard boxcar
> red, as opposed to the darker mineral red
> that roads like the GN used on a lot of
> freight equipment, you can get a box car red
> paint from a hobby store (like scalecoat #13
> box car red or Floquil #11074 box car red)
> and then have it matched at the place where
> you are geting the paint for your rolling
> stock.

> When it comes to caboose red, I have also
> heard the story about its connection to barn
> red. An archivist who worked for Devoe said
> that his company was the one who developed
> the original caboose red; he said a railroad
> asked for a paint similar to that being used
> by farmers and ranchers. Unfortunately, the
> archive information was out of this guy's
> control, so he could never get me the
> formula.

> --Malcolm

Do you still have the Pullman Green information?

David Farlow

hudson.industries@worldnet.att.net

The current (semi-retired) individual at DuPont who knows most about old paint numbers is George Rust. He has a data base compiled from various sources regarding paints used on (mainly) passenger cars and diesel locomotives. Most of this data does not predate the streamlined era (1934 and later).

As to boxcar red, there is no one color that matches this name. Each railroad or carbuilder used whatever was at hand at the time. The best resource for historical AC&F data (if it exists) would probably be Ron Goldfeder at the MOT.

As to a good-quality recent "boxcar red" paint, the Southern Railway's version for steel cars apparently holds up a lot better than most others. We ordered some a few years back from a DuPont dealer in Decatur, Illinois (Hamilton Coatings) to paint a Wabash boxcar, rather than trying to discover what "Wabash #10 red" as applied to that car really looked like.

pnichol6@prodigy.net

> The current (semi-retired) individual at
> DuPont who knows most about old paint
> numbers is George Rust. He has a data base
> compiled from various sources regarding
> paints used on (mainly) passenger cars and
> diesel locomotives. Most of this data does
> not predate the streamlined era (1934 and
> later).

> As to boxcar red, there is no one color that
> matches this name. Each railroad or
> carbuilder used whatever was at hand at the
> time. The best resource for historical
> AC&F data (if it exists) would probably
> be Ron Goldfeder at the MOT.

> As to a good-quality recent "boxcar
> red" paint, the Southern Railway's
> version for steel cars apparently holds up a
> lot better than most others. We ordered some
> a few years back from a DuPont dealer in
> Decatur, Illinois (Hamilton Coatings) to
> paint a Wabash boxcar, rather than trying to
> discover what "Wabash #10 red" as
> applied to that car really looked like.

Peter: Can you advise the name or code number for the DuPont paint you acquired for the Wabash boxcar? Also, did you paint a wood or steel car? And finally, how has it held up?

Thanks (we have some boxcars WE need to paint.)

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)


midlandblb@cs.com

> Do you still have the Pullman Green
> information?

Unfortunately, I cannot find it. I thought it was in a file here somewhere. . .

The Great Northern Railway Historical Society has a reference sheet for GN colors that includes paint chips. For some folks' taste, the Pullman Green used on the Empire Builder had too much brown in it. They sell back issues of these reference sheets, so one could take the chip and have it matched and then tweak the resulting color one way or another.

There web site is something like gnrhs.org and they do have a version of the reference sheet on line.

--Malcolm

--


malcolmrcampbell@cs.com

> The current (semi-retired) individual at
> DuPont who knows most about old paint
> numbers is George Rust.<<

Yes, that's the man I talked to.

malcolmrcampbell@cs.com

> The current (semi-retired) individual at
> DuPont who knows most about old paint
> numbers is George Rust. He has a data base
> compiled from various sources regarding
> paints used on (mainly) passenger cars and
> diesel locomotives. Most of this data does
> not predate the streamlined era (1934 and
> later).

> As to boxcar red, there is no one color that
> matches this name. Each railroad or
> carbuilder used whatever was at hand at the
> time. The best resource for historical
> AC&F data (if it exists) would probably
> be Ron Goldfeder at the MOT.

How do I get a hold of George Rust and Ron Goldfeder? Thanks

bassett@elko.net