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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate baggage car #344 restoration starts at HVRM
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:19 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 496
The only other use of a five-pointed star that I have heard of was to indicate that a main reservoir on a locomotive had been drilled, and thus was not subject to the "hammer and hydro" test every 736 days. It was painted on the reservoir itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate baggage car #344 restoration starts at HVRM
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Southern California
The five-pointed star was an A.A.R. requirement for Baggage-Express-Messager cars equipped with specific features. These were facilities for the messenger. These included work space, drinking water, toilet and lavatory.

In the back of the issues of The Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment is a two page document that was issued by the A.A. R. and entitled "Classification of Cars, Definitions and Designating Letters of Passenger Equipment Cars."

The Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment was published annually by The Railway Equipment and Publishing Co. IRC, this was the same firm publishing the freight car register. The separate Passenger Car listing came out in the late 1940s and continued to the coming of Amtrak. During some years in the late 40s and early 50s it was published twice a year.

Attachment:
BEM cars - star.jpg
BEM cars - star.jpg [ 72.73 KiB | Viewed 886 times ]


I have scanned the two pages and here is a PDF of the pages,
Attachment:
AAR_Classification of Passenger Cars.pdf [375.67 KiB]
Downloaded 24 times

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Brian Norden


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate baggage car #344 restoration starts at HVRM
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:04 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5254
Brian -

Thanks for the information. Much appreciated.


Les


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate baggage car #344 restoration starts at HVRM
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:14 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 496
Les, what's the inside of the car like, does it have a desk, drinking water, toilet and lavatory, etc. mentioned in the Official Register? Either way it would be neat to include the star in a repaint, but with all that stuff reproduced you could really tell a story.


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate baggage car #344 restoration starts at HVRM
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:42 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5254
PMC -

As you may be able to tell by the green paint, the car was put into maintenance-of-way service, possibly by the Nickel Plate but more likely by the Norfolk & Western. The items mentioned are no longer in the car. Still, I would hope that the star would be added when the car is eventually re-lettered.


Les


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate baggage car #344 restoration starts at HVRM
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:18 am
Posts: 116
Location: B'more MD
Thanks to all who have posted photos of the NKP 329 and 344. It's great to see NKP passenger equipment preserved, more than 50 years since the railroad was absorbed into the N&W Ry.

I checked the March 1966 OER and found both cars listed as BEMe, for Baggage/ Express/Messenger. I believe, but am not 100% sure, that the lower case "e" indicates it had electric lights, as well as some means of generating onboard power for those lights. In the photo of the NKP 329 you can see the belt driven generator, powered by a flat belt from the inner axle of the left-hand truck. Some or all of the various interior features which made the car(s) acceptable for messenger service may or may not have been maintained into MoW service. I know of at least one major eastern Class I carrier who converted BEMe cars to BMe cars by removing the sink, toilet, water cooler and lavatory door.

As of that March 1966 date, anyway, the N&W Ry. was maintaining the NKP, NYC&StL, and WAB initials, as well as their own N&W and Norfolk and Western markings, and carried the two cars as active passenger train equipment. Both cars theoretically could have carried the 6" 5-pointed star indicating they were equipped for Messenger service. If it went into MoW service, it was likely after that date. John Rehor's NKP Story may have more information about when it was retired. I don't have my copy handy, so I can't check that out.

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Baltimore, MD


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate baggage car #344 restoration starts at HVRM
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:09 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5254
George -

Thanks for the information. According to a long-out-of-print Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum guide, the N&W converted number 344 to maintenance of way service in August 1969, renumbering the car as 526706 at that time. No info as to exactly when it was withdrawn by the N&W from the passenger car roster.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate baggage car #344 restoration starts at HVRM
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:18 am
Posts: 116
Location: B'more MD
Les: A couple more bits of information. I went over to the Howard & Dot Ameling photo collection in the NKPHTS web site. There is a photo of the NKP 329 in Bellevue. OH on 1-11-1967. The car is coupled between what looks like a regular box car and a gondola, so I am guessing it is probably out of passenger service. The 6" 5 pointed star is centered below the car number. Similarly, the NKP 344 was photographed in October of 1967, at St. Louis., coupled to another passenger car, so probably still in service. Again, the 6" 5 pointed star is centered below the car number. Both photographs are black and white, so no guessing at colors from the photos. Every bit of information helps.

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George F.Payne
Baltimore, MD


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate baggage car #344 restoration starts at HVRM
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:52 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:23 am
Posts: 223
Location: Sheboygan County, Wisconsin
Having been given a tour of the North Judson facilities by Les in 2015, I can tell you that this car is in good hands. Am looking forward to seeing updates. Thanks for the news.


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate baggage car #344 restoration starts at HVRM
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5254
Tom -

Thanks for the kind words.

Mark managed to get some additional priming done on the car earlier this week (photos attached). Each Saturday morning before our first operations, Mark goes out with a motor car to inspect all of our trackage to be sure its safe to operate over. The first photo below shows his car coming to a stop this morning for the Mulberry Street crossing in a light rain.

Les


Attachments:
Quick day at HVRM 6-9-18 001.JPG
Quick day at HVRM 6-9-18 001.JPG [ 300.74 KiB | Viewed 345 times ]
Quick day at HVRM 6-9-18 003.JPG
Quick day at HVRM 6-9-18 003.JPG [ 283.15 KiB | Viewed 345 times ]
Quick day at HVRM 6-9-18 002.JPG
Quick day at HVRM 6-9-18 002.JPG [ 330.03 KiB | Viewed 345 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate baggage car #344 restoration starts at HVRM
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:05 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
Posts: 800
Location: Califoothills / Midwest Prairies
Les,
With those end doors, does that not make this a horse car (for transporting horses?)?
O.


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate baggage car #344 restoration starts at HVRM
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5254
o anderson wrote:
Les,
With those end doors, does that not make this a horse car (for transporting horses?)?
O.


Olin -

Just above the belt rail on the end with those doors, the car was lettered AUTOMOBILE. I've added a photo but it is very hard to read that lettering. Perhaps someone might be able to enlarge it. Was the car also used to transport horses? It is certainly possible.


Les


Attachments:
Cold December day at HVRM 12-5-15 006.JPG
Cold December day at HVRM 12-5-15 006.JPG [ 343.31 KiB | Viewed 242 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate baggage car #344 restoration starts at HVRM
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:15 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5254
Dennis -

Here's a Ryan Kertis photo from June 2007 which shows the original AUTOMOBILE lettering on NKP 344 a little bit better:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=767546


Les


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate baggage car #344 restoration starts at HVRM
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:56 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 162
Are you making repairs to the metal or just painting? Good job!


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate baggage car #344 restoration starts at HVRM
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:23 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5254
train guy -

Mark says he is "not a metal man" and is strictly painting the car to make it look more presentable. The body problems will certainly have to be addressed eventually.

Les


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