We will be repainting a P&LE caboose soon. A contractor will be coming in to sandblast and prime it next week. I'm looking for a recommendation for paint that can be color matched to the original yellow and is something that we can apply with an airless sprayer.

Does Sherwin Williams make any products that would be suitable for this application?

Go with a Corlar primer with Imron topcoat then Clearcoat. You will most likely (or at least should) put multiple primer coats on as sandbasting will ruff up the surface where one coat does not cover. Corlar is available in various colors which helps in the recoating. Stay away from the red color as it tends to leave more "hair" in the finish where the gray and yellow leave a pretty good finish. After two coats of primer you should sand the primer very lightly to get the best finish.

Bruce Backus

All I have are the DuPont and EMD color numbers and they aren't duplicated anywhere else on the list. EMD bought DuPont paints since DuPont was a major GM stockholder so that's a bust.

Two sources that I can think of off hand that may be able to help: The P&LE Yahoo! Group or maybe the New York Central Historical Society but P&LE was independent by the time the "new image" scheme came in with the yellow/gold color. If you're not a member of the Group, which is kind of an offshoot of the P&LEHS, I can inquire on your behalf. I think I have a contact at the NYCHS so I can try them if you want but I doubt they have anything.

Rick:
I have used Sherwin Williams industrial paints and can email you the specs. Their primer and top coat held the metal well, but the red pinked out over time. Ther was no need to go to bare metal with the primer. If the under coats were holding well, the primer could be used over that.

Also, use the search function here on RyPN as this has been covered a few times over the years.

J.R.

Do NOT use Rust O'leum. Horrible for railroad equipment. Incompatible with other good paints. If you want shine pay the $$ and go with any brand of automotive paint. Industrial paints will not keep a shine very long.

Automotive finishes are a great way to go. I thought there were restrictions on the application of new Imron finishes, or they required additional permits and prep? Can someone elaborate if this is the case or not?

ICI Automotive colors were used in the restoration of Eric C254 in 1994, and the paint finish has held up very well more than 20 years later.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rgvrrm/al ... 4650219670

-otto-

Imron and other similar coatings are nasty - You pretty much need a hazmat suit and air supply in an approved booth.

Automotive finishes have much less restrictive safety requirements.

Rick, I would talk to the paint crew at Strasburg RR if I were you. They paint by brush and roller. Paint which works by brush on methods should work through an airless sprayer.

The automotive finishes are the other good option. Most modern auto finishes are water based and far less hazardous than industrial paints as stated by others.

Rick - I once had to paint a passenger car in a location that was environmentally sensitive and overspray was a problem. PPG had a water based industrial coating that was easy to manually apply, and environmentally innocuous. It still looked good several years later, have not recently seen it. I manually prepped, and covered with 4 coats roller and brush due to bleed through for a seamless appearance - contrasting colors being covered over.

OT, but...

Otto - I just noticed you changed your signature to "Foamer" (and got a chuckle out of it). You need not acquiesce to the previous accusations. Though if you do, we'll still forgive you.

We researched coatings with Strasburg and Steamtown paint shops after moving our equipment to Pennsylvania.

We use Benjamin Moore coatings. They can be brushed, rolled or sprayer. No high VOCs. No two part mixing. They are a modestly priced, but won’t break the bank. Easy clean-up. Wear dermal protection when spreading converters - otherwise hands/fingers turn black. Wear respiratory protection with all sprays - half face cartridge, never a dust mask. We work from the ground or scaffolding, as needed

M82 Rust converter or RUST AWAY rust converter - M82 is the best we’ve seen for fresh blasted to cleaned rusted metal - comes out coffee w/ cream color, goes on blue, and turns black after 15 minutes. Afterward, you will not have rust in your life-time. The stuff was recommended by Strasburg – we used it – it works. We typically use this on rust prone areas, e.g. end of car where wheel splash may be a problem, nooks and crannies where condensate may form, etc.

IRONCLAD or SUPER SPEC Alkyd Metal Primer/Coatings – Have used both over last 30-odd years with good results. SUPER SPEC is the modern equivalent. We have applied on fresh blast to cleaned rusted metal with good results.

Whatever is used, surface prep is as important as the coatings being used. Bad prep will screw-up the best paint job, so don’t take short cuts. And it’s not always necessary to take previous coatings down to base metal. Get rid of flaking and heavy rust as much as practical. Remaining paint should be feathered. Hit treated rust spots with converter – no need to coat painted areas. Cover all with primer / coatings.

Hope this helps. Should you have any questions or need more info, kindly PM as your schedules allow.

Thanks,

JT Kovach

I'm glad they're priming but what kind of primer do they plan to use? It matters for quality and for interaction with the next layer. I would hope they're using a two-part epoxy primer with a mil spec rating, preferably strontium chromate or more green equivalent, not that strontium chromate isn't plenty green already! That's a color joke.

You need to know, or even guide their primer choice, because it will be easier if you can select a compatible top coat. Otherwise you could need to put an additional 2-coat layer of a primer your preferred topcoat is rated to stick to.


Most Sherwin-Williams locations have only residential paint and by law that must be latex. Putting latex paint on steel equipment isn't even stupid. However Sherwin-Williams industrial locations have literally everything. They can supply any type or grade of paint you could possibly want.

Color stability is decided by pigment quality, which is decided by which pigment carousel they are pumping out of. Ask pointed questions; if your $150/gal paint is pigmented from the same carousel as their $30/gal any color economy latex, you will be getting $30 pigment. By contrast, Awlgrip charges me $125 more per gallon for a red than a black.

The best choice is a two-part polyurethane paint,preferably linear (LPU) like Awlgrip or any of the Imrons. Automotive paints are a poor specimen of the family, hobbled by draconian VOC regs which do not target marine/industrial paint. But a poor LPU still beats an alkyd. So avoid automotive paint if you can get an LPU from another source subject to the 720 g/l limits.

Of course any LPU may attack plastic parts in sprayers, and the stuff is so darn expensive I hate to throw half of it into the wind. I brushed a 40' caboose with 2 gallons. 2-4 coats depending on if I messed up.

The big issue with LPU is that it is very toxic to spray. This is hard for people to understand because they assume that must be in the paint fumes, which you also smell when you brush. That is not true. With epoxy primers and LPU top coats, the most toxic material is in the resin. When your brush or roll it, your only significant risk is in getting it on your hands, which is a low exposure. Whereas any spray method will atomize a very fine mist into the air, and that will go into your lungs and do a lot of damage!

The only brushable LPUs tend to be marine paints, since they must be applicable while underway. You know we love our awlgrip, but the factory needs more lead time for a custom color match, and this is the busy season.

Having spent weeks painting the intricacies of a caboose with brush, I can understand wanting to use spray. But don't spray epoxy or LPU without the safety gear! If you're staying with an alkyd/oil paint, I have not found a brand I'm thrilled with. Rustoleum doesn't give you any color choices. Sherwin-Williams basic alkyd line doesn't hold up really well in my experience. The Western Railway Museum has tried a brand called Fine paints of Europe, however Western Railway Museum equipment lives indoors, so it's not a very good indication of outdoor durability.

One last thought. Go to extremes to protect the journals and brake system from flying sand. Positive pressure from an air pump for inflatable Christmas decorations 100' upwind would not be excessive. The sandblast company will view your Caboose as a static display, and simply not care about that. And sand goes everywhere! That is why I use sandblasting ... reluctantly.

PPG PSX700 is some really good stuff and can be infinitely color matched. Goes on over bare metal or primer and can be roller, brush or spray applied. It's hard stuff and wears well. They use it to paint bridges and such. Standard PPE required.
Russ

Rick,
We used Williams Hayward paint on a heavyweight Pullman in 2010. The car still looks good today. The paint was reasonable, easy to use and a huge step up in quality from a roller and bucket of big box store paint. We sprayed a water based paint and primer sold as a system. Colors in stock were a better price than the custom color we ordered. Here is the link. http://www.williams-hayward.com


Good luck,
Gabe

It really is great to see a topic focused on paint. Some years back as I began investigating what to use, it seemed like a deep dark mystery. Out of my investigation and then application, I thought the below lessons learned may be of interest:

* Paint stripping – this can open an unwanted can of worms. Key is to test the current layers of paint first before proceeding. Best to assume some lead paint on there someplace. Applies to wood and metal equipment.

* Whether the car or locomotive is in a public spot or private property, its best to keep the laws in mind. Keep in mind that you never know who is watching. An ex-volunteer or unhappy neighbor can ruin your day and it will cost you. An interesting article popped up this morning:

"Chip and Joanna Gaines Fined $40,000 by the EPA for Breaking Lead Paint Rules During Fixer Upper"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/chip- ... spartandhp

* Unless there is a way to capture all the material, I would avoid sand blasting. Not just for the environmental issues, but also the sand gets into everything. Depending on metal thickness, blasting can cause panel warping.

* In one case, we used wire wheels to remove the paint and captured all the dust and chips on tarps which were then properly disposed of. Wire wheels generally do not generate fine particles of dust with most of the material falling to the ground (and waiting tarps). A properly used heat gun or chemical stripper are other options. I have used both on large projects and they worked fine, although slow.

* Spray painting, again if in an open space, should be avoided. Unless the car is tented in some way, I'd avoid this as again it can attract the wrath of unhappy neighbors. We have seen this in NJ, I'm sure its an issue elsewhere. A properly done rolled paint job can look great.

Again, from my experience, whether on public or private property, I'd avoid open sand blasting. Have all the layers of paint tested for lead. And avoid open air spray painting as well.

Keep in mind, there is no real need to go down to bare metal. The SW primer made this clear.

Does it take longer? Yes. But the end product is the same - a nicely painted piece of equipment, but that was done in an environmentally sound manner while keeping the neighbors, and the watchful eye of the EPA, in mind.

J.R.