It is currently Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:03 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8864
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
Word has reached me from within Amtrak's operating personnel that, in addition to the somewhat Draconian changes being imposed upon private varnish operators using Amtrak, Amtrak MAY--just MAY--end up disposing of a couple significant examples of early Amfleet.

If you are a railroad museum (not an operator) that feels you can justify acquiring, and preserving, an Amfleet car as a static display, drop me a PM or e-mail to discuss further. DO NOT contact Amtrak at this time.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8864
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
RELATED:

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... fleet-cars

Quote:
Amtrak has begun the process of seeking new equipment to replace its Amfleet I passenger cars, posting a Request for Information today to explore options to replace the single-level cars built between 1975 and 1977.

The request is seeking information on cars, trainsets and self-propelled equipment to replace the Amfleet equipment, used primarily on routes east of the Mississippi River, such as the Northeast Regional, Keystone, Carolinian and Illinois Service trains. Based on the resulting information, Amtrak plans to release a Request for Proposal for specific replacement equipment in 2019.


Link to actual RFI: https://procurement.amtrak.com/irj/port ... 6565a217df


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:36 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:05 pm
Posts: 33
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
If you are a railroad museum (not an operator) that feels you can justify acquiring, and preserving, an Amfleet car as a static display, drop me a PM or e-mail to discuss further. DO NOT contact Amtrak at this time.


I find the emphasis on "static display" to be interesting. That seems to infer a preserved car will not have trucks included or modification to the trucks done such as removing the bearings to prevent operating it. I assume this is so the car can't be used to compete with current and new Amtrak services such as a state sponsored train along the lines of what North Carolina does to cite an example.

So even if any Amfleet are preserved it sounds like they won't be fit for operation on a museum demonstration railway. And yes, I know to properly showcase Amfleet a compatible HEP locomotive (think F40PH) or power source is also needed.

I only make these observations as a railfan who visits/rides various RR museums. Have always thought it would be cool to have an early F40PH paired with two Amcoaches and one Amcafe to represent Amtrak's first new rolling stock. I was a kid when they were new and first placed into service on the Northeast Corridor behind E60CP's and GG1/power cars which I know dates me - LOL!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:05 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3381
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Robert J wrote:
I only make these observations as a railfan who visits/rides various RR museums. Have always thought it would be cool to have an early F40PH paired with two Amcoaches and one Amcafe to represent Amtrak's first new rolling stock. I was a kid when they were new and first placed into service on the Northeast Corridor behind E60CP's and GG1/power cars which I know dates me - LOL!


How many of us recall that a lot of Amtrak secondary trains back then were just such a three car consist?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 506
Location: B'more Maryland
Robert J wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
If you are a railroad museum (not an operator) that feels you can justify acquiring, and preserving, an Amfleet car as a static display, drop me a PM or e-mail to discuss further. DO NOT contact Amtrak at this time.


I find the emphasis on "static display" to be interesting. That seems to infer a preserved car will not have trucks included or modification to the trucks done such as removing the bearings to prevent operating it. I assume this is so the car can't be used to compete with current and new Amtrak services such as a state sponsored train along the lines of what North Carolina does to cite an example.



I wouldn't be surprised if this was to prevent them from being used by commuter operators or to prevent liability relating to secondary uses. I think the AEM-7s were the same way.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:54 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:30 am
Posts: 139
Maybe some bureaucrat is worried parts will be clandestinely sold to Iran, so they're preemptively crippling them. ;)

It's a universal policy for military aircraft donations today. Just gutted fuselages unlike the old days.

On a serious note after trying to be cute, what early members of this fleet are special other than perhaps the 1st Amfleet? Obviously the last Budd built Amfleet II is special as the last intercity passenger car to be outshopped from that historic firm (as is the last Superliner from Pullman Standard which I believe was named in honor of George Pullman), but are there any particularly notable Amfleet I's that stand out above the rest?

Any with original interiors intact that might put them ahead of the rest in museum desirability?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8864
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
To clarify just a bit:

The particular piece(s) I have information on do not lend themselves to operation in a tourist or commuter setting. We could be talking the only way any museum gets them is with "shop trucks," for example, until mass retirements free up more trucks. And one of the issues is that Amfleet I is now butting against the "40-year rule" for truck teardowns/rebuilds.

I have received appropriate inquiries from a couple parties. That's all I'm at liberty to say for now.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:22 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1094
Location: Back in NE Ohio
To prevent the cars from being operated, Amtrak wouldn't have to sabotage them. I remember when Pennsy/PC was selling-off older passenger cars about 50 years ago, my dentist was part of a group of investors that bought two to make into an ice cream parlor in Hudson, Ohio, on a stub siding near the now demolished passenger station. He told me that part of the purchase agreement with the railroad was a clause that prohibited them from ever operating the cars as moving rolling stock. So, that is all Amtrak would have to do in selling any old cars. Like CSX prohibits lessors of it's spun-off lines from operating passenger trains or steam.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:21 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:21 pm
Posts: 29
This is an interesting thread.

Very few pieces of equipment preserved in one of Amtrak schemes is actually present in one of the many museums out there.

Amtrak has been around for close to 50 years and for many out there, it is the only long distance passenger operation they know.

Railroad museum of Pennsylvania has 2 electrics, and IRM just got one electric.

There are also 2 F40PHs.

So yes Amfleet definitely warrants preservation. Staple of operations for close to 40 years across the US.

However, i would think that a complete (or fairly complete) example of one demonstrates far more what they are, than a gutted carcass with no trucks - if one can be obtain.

Len


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:37 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 374
Alexander D. Mitchell IV - "......And one of the issues is that Amfleet I is now butting against the "40-year rule" for truck teardowns/rebuilds."

This particular item should not be a factor. The so-called 40 year rule as we have come to know it as regards privately owned passenger cars - while a big deal to car owners - is really nothing more than a standard 4 year, 800,000 mile overhaul that these Amfleet cars have received many, many times. A new owner could follow standard procedures already in place for private car owners to complete that work to return such a car to service if so desired.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:49 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3381
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Topfuel wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV - "......And one of the issues is that Amfleet I is now butting against the "40-year rule" for truck teardowns/rebuilds."



Isn't there also a 40 year frame inspection for the whole car? Not a quite a routine matter, but not impossible, either (look at some of the private cars still running)--just expensive, like everything else in this field.

As much as I think these cars were and are ugly, they do deserve preservation. They did help us keep passenger trains running when new equipment was needed.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1234
Location: Chicago USA
Is there a reasonable way that Amtrak could be liable for accidents involving its old equipment that is sold outright, as is? I realize anyone can sue anyone for anything but unless there were known defects which they did not disclose I don't see the risk. It has not prevented railroads from donating equipment knowing the recipient will probably operate it such as Metra giving F's and bilevel cars to IRM. Or various railroads donating locomotives to them and other operating entities.

The competition factor is another matter but that also seems like a stretch.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 374
"Isn't there also a 40 year frame inspection for the whole car? Not a quite a routine matter, but not impossible, either (look at some of the private cars still running)--just expensive, like everything else in this field."

As part of the Amtrak Private Car "PC2" Inspection (what has been more or less referred to as the "40 year" inspection), the collision posts and side sills will need to be inspected, in addition to the body bolsters, end underframe, etc. There is no provision or requirement for inspecting the entire superstructure.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 6-18003, Google [Bot], Jennie K, technoty and 39 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: