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 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:36 pm
Posts: 8
What makes it ‘go time’ for Amfleet and not for the P42 locomotives? Their replacement has already been ordered, where the Amfleet replacement is still at the RFP stage.


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 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:04 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1233
Location: Back in NE Ohio
I'm in no position to do anything about it, but if the preservation community could get it's act together starting now, we might be able to represent an F40, and or a P40/42, an Amcafe, and four or five Amcoaches as a train, and it would be perfectly representative of what has operated in the East for the past 40 years. Our brothers across the pond can do similar things, I think we should try.


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 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9438
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
More developing:

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... uperliners

Quote:
— Replacement of Amfleet I cars, either with railcars, self-propelled multiple-unit equipment, or other trainsets. These could be diesel, electric or dual-mode.

— Acquisition of dual-power equipment — either locomotives or trainsets — to eliminate current engine changes between diesel and electric power at locations in the Norhteast.

— Development of a plan for multilevel cars to replace the current Superliners (and, potentially, California and Surfliner cars), with those cars entering service between 2026 and 2031.

— Refreshing of Amfleet II, Superliner, Horizon and Viewliner I equipment, as well as possible reconfiguration of Viewliner I sleeping cars and Viewliner II dining cars.


So now, while we're still trying to grab a Santa Fe hi-level car or two for preservation instead of operation, now we start thinking about saving original Superliners to boot........


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 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:55 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 263
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
More developing:

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... uperliners

Quote:
— Replacement of Amfleet I cars, either with railcars, self-propelled multiple-unit equipment, or other trainsets. These could be diesel, electric or dual-mode.

— Acquisition of dual-power equipment — either locomotives or trainsets — to eliminate current engine changes between diesel and electric power at locations in the Norhteast.

— Development of a plan for multilevel cars to replace the current Superliners (and, potentially, California and Surfliner cars), with those cars entering service between 2026 and 2031.

— Refreshing of Amfleet II, Superliner, Horizon and Viewliner I equipment, as well as possible reconfiguration of Viewliner I sleeping cars and Viewliner II dining cars.


So now, while we're still trying to grab a Santa Fe hi-level car or two for preservation instead of operation, now we start thinking about saving original Superliners to boot........


They are going to be pushing 50 years old, not a bad service life!

CD


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 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:09 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:36 pm
Posts: 8
This fleet replacement program is going to wipe out pretty much everything Amtrak currently owns except for the Viewliners and the Siemens products purchased in the past 6 years. I foresee, unfortunately, the vast majority of this stuff being lost besides maybe a token car or engine here and there, as I don’t think many people besides myself and some others are that interested in it. I hope I’m wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:56 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 448
Location: Pure Michigan
RTL-III wrote:
This fleet replacement program is going to wipe out pretty much everything Amtrak currently owns except for the Viewliners and the Siemens products purchased in the past 6 years. I foresee, unfortunately, the vast majority of this stuff being lost besides maybe a token car or engine here and there, as I don’t think many people besides myself and some others are that interested in it. I hope I’m wrong.


Pipe dream: Someone should start an Amtrak museum. Or passenger railroad museum.


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 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:18 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:36 pm
Posts: 8
The problem with that, I think, is that many current railroad museums are able to appeal to the general public since steam engines and first-generation diesels seem “historic” or “vintage.” Even say 30 years ago, F units for example already that appeal, even though they were only as old as late production F40s or early Dash 8s are now. Most of us railfans probably get the appeal of those diesels but I’m not so sure the public would be naturally drawn to them. I’m not sure where in history that line between “old-timey” and “regular train” was drawn in the public perception, but unfortunately it does not seem to be moving forward with time. It has been hard enough preserving equipment original to Amtrak as various models have trickled out of service, let alone figuring out how to deal with a system-wide massacre of equipment on the order of magnitude we are about to see in the early-to-mid 2020s. Again, I hope I’m wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:49 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Los Altos, CA
RTL-III wrote:
I’m not sure where in history that line between “old-timey” and “regular train” was drawn in the public perception, but unfortunately it does not seem to be moving forward with time.


If I had to guess, the cutoff seems to be about the transition between the first and second generations of diesel power. Exceptions occur, like OERM's restoration of the AT&SF FP45.


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 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:26 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 302
Location: Philadelphia, PA
I don't know; I'm on the trolley side of the spectrum here but somebody should preserve an Amfleet car or a string of them if they have a HEP diesel.

When I was coming up, unless there was a convenient Reading schedule, going to NY meant PRR, and that meant P70fbr cars with walkover seats. They rode well, but eventually got old and the rebuilt 21 roomette cars came on the scene. PRR went to PC, the 21 Roomette cars got raggedy with A/C failures, some NEC trains were down to 4 cars and the NJ Turnpike got busier.

Along came the Amfleet cars. Windows for everybody*, working lights and A/C. They looked fast with the curved sides and corrugation. Business went back up; more cars and riders came.

These cars really saved the NEC, and decades later they're still the primary accommodation.

Phil Mulligan

* except one row in the middle


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 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:05 pm
Posts: 843
Location: MA
PaulWWoodring wrote:
I'm in no position to do anything about it, but if the preservation community could get it's act together starting now, we might be able to represent an F40, and or a P40/42, an Amcafe, and four or five Amcoaches as a train, and it would be perfectly representative of what has operated in the East for the past 40 years. Our brothers across the pond can do similar things, I think we should try.


When it comes to F40 preservation this post from Western Rail Inc. reinforces what I have been saying all along "The parts inside it are valuable as they fit any mid 80's SD or GP. So it is probably out of the ballpark for a museum. However, we would probably sell or I would rather trade the shell. Or trade the whole thing off for another type locomotive!! PM me for specifics" So unless you have a lot of good trades or a ton of money you waited too long. :(


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 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:25 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 988
The early GE Genesis units have almost no resale value other than scrap, and believe it or not the Genesis units have been mainline power for almost as long as the F40s were. No one in the working trades (engineers, mechanical, etc.) likes them, but the bean counters who paid for them and the fuel did, a story to tell right there.


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 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:36 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Bucks County and West Chester, PA
While we wait for this equipment to potentially become available, in the meantime the Exhibition of Amtrak History in La Plata, MO is seeking funds to refurbish and protect their display, for those interested in Amtrak preservation.

https://www.gofundme.com/aprhf-amtrak-exhibit-refurbishment


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 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:05 pm
Posts: 843
Location: MA
PMC wrote:
The early GE Genesis units have almost no resale value other than scrap, and believe it or not the Genesis units have been mainline power for almost as long as the F40s were. No one in the working trades (engineers, mechanical, etc.) likes them, but the bean counters who paid for them and the fuel did, a story to tell right there.

I don't think any of the genes#its have any vaule above scrap. If one were to be saved I would look gor the first one built and the ones that pulled Obamas inaugural train.


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 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1233
Location: Back in NE Ohio
RCD wrote:
PMC wrote:
The early GE Genesis units have almost no resale value other than scrap, and believe it or not the Genesis units have been mainline power for almost as long as the F40s were. No one in the working trades (engineers, mechanical, etc.) likes them, but the bean counters who paid for them and the fuel did, a story to tell right there.

I don't think any of the genes#its have any vaule above scrap. If one were to be saved I would look gor the first one built and the ones that pulled Obamas inaugural train.


Remember what Jim Boyd called them: "AMD-103, Armenian Made Diesel - 103% ugly".


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 Post subject: Re: So you want to preserve some Amfleet?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:42 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 302
Location: Philadelphia, PA
As to Amtrak's GE diesels, an important point is that the GE's fit in Penn Station NY.

With the P40 and P42 diesels, it just means they can be towed thru Penn Station to get to the Hartford Line or to Boston, but with the P32AC-DM dual-modes (600-750 VDC + diesel) it's essential to their thru operation.

Amtrak has put P40/42 diesels in consists with ACS-64 motors (including MU'd thru the train) to make a dual-mode consist with the electric working under wire and the diesels taking over out in the open air, such as the 2017 Amtrak Autumn Express that ran via CSX's River Subdivision to the Castleton Bridge, then up and across the Hudson and down and back to Penn Station via the Hudson Line.

Phil Mulligan


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