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 Post subject: Re: Oh Look a Hand Grenade *throws*
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5476
Location: southeastern USA
How about this: If you have nothing of value to say concerning the facts of the situation from a position of legitimate involvement, say nothing, and if you only want to speculate about the situation or people involved with no legitimate and factual information don't post.

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Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."
Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: Disagrement over steam repairs
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:31 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:12 am
Posts: 713
Location: cheyenne
This is unreal, I look forward to every other railroad contractor going thru the same trial by jury (or know it all's) so we can also spout off about their business and what we think of the way they conduct it based on a poorly written newspaper article circulated by a person with an axe to grind and no balls to talk the company boss themselves privately.
RYPN admins should be ashamed of themselves, if they exist.


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 Post subject: Re: Disagrement over steam repairs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:18 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1230
Location: Chicago USA
They are doing a fine job.


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 Post subject: Re: Disagrement over steam repairs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:01 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1419
Location: Strasburg, PA
Dave wrote:
How about this: If you have nothing of value to say concerning the facts of the situation from a position of legitimate involvement, say nothing, and if you only want to speculate about the situation or people involved with no legitimate and factual information don't post.

In that case, 99.47% of all threads on Rypn would have only one post.

John,

I’m glad that business is good.

Regarding #14, for what it’s worth, since Mark Jordan left, I’m hard pressed to remember hearing anything complimentary being said about RR in Sterns either.

I do want to thank you. We had discussed doing that job (#14) as well, but fortunately you were hired and I have been glad to not be involved ever since.

As Conrad says, “The Sun always shines on the Strasburg Rail Road.”

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"It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work."
C. S. Forester

Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: Disagrement over steam repairs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:14 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1311
Location: Youngstown, OH
car57 wrote:
RYPN admins should be ashamed of themselves, if they exist.


We exist. But if we were to remove the thread some would accuse us of censorship. If we leave it up then other people accuse us of allowing a witch hunt to take place.

The original article IS a news article. Printed on newsprint with ink in a circulated newspaper. Can't get much more "newsy" than that. And it is of a rail preservation topic, as it is about a steam locomotive restoration effort.

All that we ask here is that people are respectful to each other. We are not here to weed out the bad news and only promote the good news.

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Rick Rowlands
J&L Narrow Gauge Railroad
"The shortest and narrowest Railroad in Ohio"


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 Post subject: Re: Disagrement over steam repairs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:14 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5476
Location: southeastern USA
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Dave wrote:
How about this: If you have nothing of value to say concerning the facts of the situation from a position of legitimate involvement, say nothing, and if you only want to speculate about the situation or people involved with no legitimate and factual information don't post.

In that case, 99.47% of all threads on Rypn would have only one post.

This would be a bad thing?

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Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."
Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: Disagrement over steam repairs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8820
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
I only have one thing to add:

Any competent legal advisor would advise a client not to comment on pending litigation, no matter how misplaced or vexatious it may be deemed in the long run.

The ruse of "commenting" via repostings by a "social media team" is not enough to get around this.

The only thing that can really be "learned" from this discussion, and it pops up only later in this thread, would be from a discussion of contract law and the differences between the verbal "handshake" deals alleged by the Strasburg for privately-owned equipment versus the contract demands of something done for/owned by a government body or major corporation. (How was the "emergency" work for UP 844's flat spots or the damaged safety valves handled, for example?) I'm envisioning Strasburg's personnel being handed a 200-page contract for a project covering everything from minority/women set-asides to Six Sigma or ISO 9001 standards, and Linn or Kelly tossing the whole thing out the door about page twenty......

I'm not interested in "airing dirty laundry" or casting aspersions unless someone's in a position to get injured or killed--the Gettysburg RR, for example. Unless you have that to bring to the table, it's all just "Yelp reviews" or whatnot, to be taken with grains of salt.

And, lastly, a gentle reminder to Mr. Rimmasch: If you find yourself in a hole, even if someone else dug it, stop digging further (at least in public).


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 Post subject: Re: Disagrement over steam repairs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:00 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:32 pm
Posts: 8
It appears that I, again am being censored. To the moderators, please do not post any of my notes. I will again leave the page rather than feel that I have no rights to comment without censorship.

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Wasatch Railroad Contractors
Cheyenne, Wyoming


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 Post subject: Re: Disagrement over steam repairs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:17 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2292
Location: Northern Illinois
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

I'm not interested in "airing dirty laundry" or casting aspersions unless someone's in a position to get injured or killed--the Gettysburg RR, for example. Unless you have that to bring to the table, it's all just "Yelp reviews" or whatnot, to be taken with grains of salt.



I donno... it's better than a Yelp review, because it's often right from the horse's mouth, figuratively, anyway. Within the last month or so we've heard from three people who sell steam locomotive repair services (I was going to say four, but J. David just informed us that he is no longer soliciting work.) If I was in need of such services, I would certainly use the opinions I've formed to winnow down the list of parties to whom I'd send an RFQ.

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 Post subject: Re: Disagrement over steam repairs
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:39 am 

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 9:42 am
Posts: 25
[quote="Kelly Anderson"]

John,

I’m glad that business is good.

Regarding #14, for what it’s worth, since Mark Jordan left, I’m hard pressed to remember hearing anything complimentary being said about RR in Sterns either.

I do want to thank you. We had discussed doing that job (#14) as well, but fortunately you were hired and I have been glad to not be involved ever since.

As Conrad says, “The Sun always shines on the Strasburg Rail Road.”[/quote]

=====================================================

I was one of the team who helped pull the Big South Fork Scenic Railway out of bankruptcy in the mid-1990s and I was the one responsible for Mark Jordan being hired as General Manager there. Mark was given an 8-month job commitment and was told that if he kept the losses to a certain amount that the MCHF Board would review trying to keep the operation open for another season. Mark turned a profit the first year and built quite a bit of positive momentum in following years including going after and winning a sizable grant for the operation..

Mark and other members of the railroad crew started stripping the steam locomotive for restoration. Mark and I were the only members of the team who had steam experience and we wanted to hire Greg Dodd to assist in the restoration of the locomotive, however, Greg was tied up with the SP 745 project in New Orleans and wouldn't be available for 8 to 12 months. Management got impatient and, over Mark's and my objection, hired another contractor who subsequently pretty much shut Mark and myself out of the project. All I'll say is that the reservations that Mark and I had all came true and then some. After about four years, the project was stalled, grossly over budget, out of funds and 60% complete and sat dormant for several more years. In the meantime, Mark found himself demoted due to internal politics and then eventually was forced out of the organization in a set of circumstances that to this day I find reprehensible. I feel blessed that he still remains my friend after the mess I got him into at Stearns.

Mark proved so "incompetent" with steam that he got a job with the State of Kentucky as a boiler inspector and was later promoted to Chief Boiler Inspector for the State and is pretty much the "go to" guy in the region when it comes to historical boiler repair or rebuild consultation. He has also been appointed to the FRA's National Board Subcomittee on Locomotive Boilers. This is just one of many examples of the kind of talent that was run off by the management at Stearns. I am a first-hand observer of this as I was an engineer at the operation on and off for almost 20 years, served as Road Foreman of Locomotive Engineers for 10 years, served on the MCHF Board for several years and later was the Steam Locomotive Project Volunteer Coordinator when Wasatch took over the project. I was also on the Steam Locomotive Project Oversight Committee during the Wasatch period.

Regarding Wasatch. I won't comment much because of the pending litigation, however, I will say that I personally found John Rimmasch and Steve Lee nothing but totally honorable and extremely knowledgeable and competent. I served as Volunteer Coordinator on the steam locomotive project and worked intimately with both of them. I served on the steam locomotive project oversight committee from August 2014 until my resignation from the operation in January 2015. I am personally saddened about the recent turn of events. If I had the opportunity to hire Wasatch for another project, I'd do so in a heartbeat.

I'll add that I have had a strong personal interest in the locomotive as I used to operate it in the late 1980s and early 1990s when it was at Tombstone Junction.

I still love the operation at Stearns but it breaks my heart to see the direction the operation has taken in recent years. I can only hope and pray that someday things can be turned around as it a wonderful and historic operation that is worth saving and is a priceless and much needed tourism asset for McCreary County, KY.

Bill Johnson, Lexington, KY


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 Post subject: Re: Disagrement over steam repairs
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:12 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2088
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I know this post started out a little suspect, but it has ended with some interesting information.

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Lektor
Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


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 Post subject: Re: Disagrement over steam repairs
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:12 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:56 pm
Posts: 7
In April 2016, the FRA conducted a two day inspection of the 14 and found several issues. They issued two inspection reports, which are attached. Photographs were also taken by the FRA inspectors. These are public records, available to anyone who requests them from the FRA, so there is no harm in them being shared here. Of course, this was the state of the 14 two years ago, I don' t know if any of the issues were corrected, or if any other work was performed. If not, it would make the basis for the lawsuit understandable from the perspective of the locomotive's owner.


Attachments:
Responsive Records 9 - Inspection Report - K&T 14-4-28-16_Redacted.pdf [31.31 KiB]
Downloaded 327 times
Responsive Records 8 - Inspection Report - K&T 14-4-27-16_Redacted.pdf [12.52 KiB]
Downloaded 227 times
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 Post subject: Re: Disagrement over steam repairs
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:26 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:38 pm
Posts: 25
BSFSRYFAN

That reads like a coroner's report. Might I ask where you were able to find these records?


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 Post subject: Re: Oh Look a Hand Grenade *throws*
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:32 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:56 pm
Posts: 7
Wasatch RR Cont wrote:

WRC Contracts: Our contracts are as "iron clad" as they can be. Our contract template, about 11-15 pages was written by a team of lawyers who, have litigated and won a number of "service provider" cases. I would remind all those who care that WRC has a "zero loss run record." That means, we have never litigated a case (kept any/all disputes out of court) and we have lost no cases nor do we have any pay outs on any case/project. We bond and protect every project and we insure our projects (something not many, if any other contractors in our industry do.). The fact that we bond our projects makes us more of a target for litigation. Some customers, seeing that we have insurance, are actually going after some kind of "insurance" claim, rather than any form of tangible damage claim. So far, we have not lost any dispute. We have never had to pay out on a performance bond either.

In addition, we are a growing company. Often, as you grow, you become a target. Our contracts are written in such a way that all of our projects are "time and materials, cost plus" projects. We do project and offer a "cost magnitude projection" but we have very strong language in our contracts that excludes any notion of guaranteed pricing. Since I am being transparent in this message, we have fought three such disputes in the past year. 100% total full paid victories for WRC, including repayment of legal fees. Our contracts are very well written. Lastly, our contracts include our fees and pricing and they also exclude very particular items.


Attached is the proposal WRRC presented to get the job to work on K&T 14. This proposal was attached to the lawsuit that was filed in Court here in Kentucky, so it's a public document. Anyone can go down to the Circuit Clerk's Office and get a copy. What's interesting is that in the original proposal, WRRC stated:

Quote:
WRC has a zero loss run record having never litigated. nor negotiated any settlement related to no performance, poor performance, or inability to complete. The cost of bonding has been included in the cost of the project, however, this money is better spent on the project, not in an area that has little likely-hood of being used. Though we arc prepared and though we have provided proof of our ability to bond this project as required, we also know that there is precedent for waiving bond requirement based on past performance. Our record is substantial proof that bonding WRC should not be required and that we could honorably request a waiver to the bonding .


And:
Quote:
Finally, we feel that the total budget for the project is more than would be actually required to get this project finished on time and ensure full compliance with all FRA regulations.


Attachments:
WRRC 14 Proposal.pdf [1.25 MiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Disagrement over steam repairs
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:34 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:56 pm
Posts: 7
DWH wrote:
BSFSRYFAN

That reads like a coroner's report. Might I ask where you were able to find these records?


Every federal government agency has to adhere to the Freedom of Information Act, with some exceptions (national security, etc.). You can make a request for any FRA inspection report as listed in the link below:

https://www.transportation.gov/foia


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