Arrived today. Involved unloading, but now safe at the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum.

Photo 1. Sitting out on Mulberry Street.

Photo 2. Making the turn in.

Photo 3. Sitting outside the Shop.


Les

Congratulations! I can’t wait to see it on my next visit to HVRM. Are there any plans for restoration?

Thomas

Hear, Hear! I figured you guys would save something from there.

Thomas -

That's the idea.

Les

Outstanding work that you folks are doing over there in North Judson! Always interesting to follow your weekly email updates.

Richard -

Thanks for the kind comments. I screwed up when I made the subject line for this thread! Here is the history of the car:

Built in 1917 by Pullman for the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western.
DL&W #676 1917-1930
DL&W #2328 1930-1961
Erie Lackawanna #3328 1961-1976
Conrail #3328 1976-1983
New Jersey Transit #4328 1983-1985(?)
ITM #4328 1985(?)-2018

As you can see, the car was NEVER EL # 4328 and in fact, when in active service, only carried the number 4328 for somewhere between 2 and 3 years. If I get the chance, I will correct the subject line to read EL #3328 to better reflect its true identity.

Les

Les,
So, is this an MU trailer? I see some large trainline receptacles on the roof.

Dennis -

Yes, that's what it spent most of its in-service life as.


Les

1917-1985! They certainly got their money's worth out of it.
Nice job saving it.

It's been pointed out to me that a number of photos exist of these cars in EL Pullman Green paint and bearing numbers in the 4xxx-series. Checking it out, I have to agree that the car probably also once was Erie-Lackawanna #4328. Why does this matter? Well....our painting "guru" Mark, has already asked about how the exterior of the car should appear. I can't very well jump up and down and say 3328 when evidence exists that the car was also 4328. So is the above lineage in error? Can someone explain? Thanks!

Les

EL 4356 at Hoboken in 1981. On this car, the "ERIE LACKAWANNA" was centered. A number of the cars simply had "ERIE" added to the left of the original "LACKAWANNA" lettering.

Found on the web:

First and third cars in this train (both high trailers) show the offset "ERIE". November 1978 at Orange, NJ (not my photo).

Les,

Your history is generally correct. As for the dates, I would not get too wound up over those either. Although, I believe it was Conrail that started to renumber the MUs into the "4300" series, etc. during the late 1970's, early 1980's.

As previously stated, when the car was built originally, it had the same general appearance as the famed "Boonton" cars that made up the majority of the DL&W's fleet. When electrification of many of the suburban lines occurred, a large number of Boonton cars were rebuilt into the high-roof trailers.

The vast majority of the Lackawanna MU's wore Pullman Green throughout their entire in-service life. However, there were a few MU's which received "experimental" paint schemes. A number of cars (both power cars and trailers) were painted up in the two-toned traction colors. I can't recall the precise history off the top of my head, but it was my understanding the the new two-tone paint scheme was applied to cars when Conrail rebuilt them with funding provided by NJDOT (prior to the formation of NJ Transit).

#4328 was one a handful of trailers to actually receive the two-tone scheme.

This link will take you to a photo which shows the red/cream paint scheme pretty well (Photo credited to Dave Kohut).

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/mu/mu3586.jpg

Some historical accounts have suggested the two toned color combination might have been traction orange and cream (as opposed to red).

This link appears to support those accounts.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/mu/mu4365.jpg

(Photo credit unknown)

As such, your Museum might want to have a discussion internally as to whether you wish to preserve that unique aspect of the car's history by restoring the two tone scheme to the car. That specific car wore that scheme in regular service.

Otherwise, the standard Pullman green scheme is the color that the car wore in regular service.

Now, if you wanted to paint the car to reflect the time period immediately after the EL merger, you may want to track down historical photos from the time period. Immediately after the merger, the word "Erie" was added in front of Lackawanna in a manner which left everything else un-touched.

Why is that significant you ask? Numerous photos exist that appear to show the word Erie in the lettering as "off-centered". Management felt that there was no need to completely repaint the letterboard above the windows until the MU came into the shop for heavy work. So, you do, on occasion see photos with lettering which is not "centered" between the doors.

This Dave Kohut photo shows what I'm referring to. You'll note how close the word "Erie" is really close to the door.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/mu/el-m3585adk.jpg

However, that only occured for a short period of time right after the merger. Not all of the MUs show evidence of that unusual practice. You may need to track down a specific car photo to verify if your particular car carried that unusual letting style or not.

Congrats to your group on the successful rescue of the car. I'd love to see the car restored as a trailer. They make a great "cab car" for push pull operations.

Howard and Eric -

Thanks very much. Will pass all this information along.


Les

Yes, it was CR/NJ DOT that renumbered the DL&W MU's into the 4000's. The red and cream paint was also a CR/NJ DOT doing.

I don't know why they renumbered the cars, maybe to avoid confusion with CR diesels. But didn't EL number their U33C's in the 3300's and the SD45/SDP45's in the 3600's? The EL guys could tell them apart from the MU's.

Phil Mulligan