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 Post subject: Re: NJ Museum of Transportation Woes and Possible Eviction
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 1064
Location: Leicester, MA.
Rick Rowlands wrote:
I wish I had more resources to attempt to save a few things but I'm stretched quite thin right now.


We still need to know what is in need of rescue. I'm willing to try and pull a rabbit out of my hat and give it a go, but without knowing what's up for disposal it's impossible to try to develop a plan...

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 Post subject: Re: NJ Museum of Transportation Woes and Possible Eviction
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:09 pm
Posts: 397
It seems likely that the writing is on the wall here. It may be the time to start thinking about maybe stashing some money aside for the future... Even if nothing came of it...NOW is the time...

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 Post subject: Re: NJ Museum of Transportation Woes and Possible Eviction
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:03 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 1064
Location: Leicester, MA.
Nova55 wrote:
It seems likely that the writing is on the wall here. It may be the time to start thinking about maybe stashing some money aside for the future... Even if nothing came of it...NOW is the time...

I agree, now is the time to begin coming up with a plan of action, but we also need to know what's at risk. Is it the entire collection? A handful of pieces? Some stuff that's falling apart that might be worth saving parts off of for other restorations? There's so many unknowns here. What we need are cold, hard, immutable facts. What this will all come down to is whether people at NJMT are willing to talk... Here's hoping that this doesn't turn into a repeat of some of the other episodes we've seen over the last few years.

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 Post subject: Re: NJ Museum of Transportation Woes and Possible Eviction
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2543
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Also, just want to point this out, when I look at the sheer cubic dollars that was frantically spent at Noblesville, it may be cheaper simply to acquire an appropriately located piece of land to which a move would be obviously feasible... and move the equipment to it on its own wheels.

In fact, if the aggrieved landlord sees that you have done this, that would likely stay their hand. They don't want to be in the court of law or public opinion being seen as the unreasonable one.

You'd be amazed how effective it is to actually work with your community... especially after years of resistance and stonewalling have lowered their expectations to nearly nil!


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 Post subject: Re: NJ Museum of Transportation Woes and Possible Eviction
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:39 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 566
Location: Wall, NJ
Dylan:
A few facts. The current NJMT board has a poor record of communications with the rail preservation community and even their own landlord (the NJ DEP). I have plenty of OPRA documents that document the long term relationship between the NJ DEP and NJMT. So, communications is not a strong point. The only way to really communicate is to go out there in person and not give up.

The snow plow is a good case in point. Yes, it was in rough shape, really a kit with the wood nearly all gone. But rather than scrap it, why not put it on the RyPN classifieds? Someone may have had an interest. Heck, I had a place for it right in NJ. The flanger would have made a great display for someone.

One other person has tried in person to talk to them about a small Plymouth. Answer comes back as no. Another offered to pay for work on a NJ locomotive they have, but the offer was turned down.

The rail they scrapped, to include a lot of good park train rail, could have gone on RyPN classifieds or even DLS. They would have made more money, plus helped out another operation.

We hear now that they consider scrapping of the collection as a “good income stream.” Wow, those are words you want to hear from a museum.

I would suspect that key items to find a home for quickly, as in go out and start talking now would include:

1) The Gray Lumber Co log car remains. Needs to be documented where it sits carefully dismantled for removal. What a great project. I may even have a source of timbers if someone wanted buy it. I know a place to keep it as well.

2) Quincy and Torch Lake ore car steel frames - they seems to be in a scrap pile.

3) The New Egypt, NJ Union Transportation turn table

4) Lots of small stuff - couplers, wheel sets, trucks, signals, etc.

5) 2' gauge Plymouth #4 - failing off a flat car on the rip track near the woods.

6) 42" gauge Plymouth - falling off a flat car on the rip track near the woods.

7) The original Pine Creek open car, built on a log car frame, outside on Bay 0

So, that would be the urgent list.

If the state insists on a down sizing of the collection, then the list gets much longer. Can deal with that later. I would suggest people focus on the above items.

J.R.


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 Post subject: Re: NJ Museum of Transportation Woes and Possible Eviction
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:25 pm 

Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 11:28 pm
Posts: 3
Might the Mack critter #2, former Pouch Terminal, be at risk? It's existed for 90 years, served from 29 to the 70s continually, and achieved local fame before being sent to the NJMOT, but is currently stored and is standard gauge, so it cannot run on the narrow gauge of Pine Creek


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 Post subject: Re: NJ Museum of Transportation Woes and Possible Eviction
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:59 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 265
I inquired about the Pouch Terminal Mack back in 2015, the museum will sell her if they feel they are getting a good price out of her. #2 is a one of a kind artifact, NJMT is very aware of her historical significance and will not seek to scrap the locomotive. As for the other artifacts it's up in the air what will happen to them. I know there has been some interest expressed in the Raritan Copper #9, we'll see where we go with that.

Cameron


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 Post subject: Re: NJ Museum of Transportation Woes and Possible Eviction
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:14 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 566
Location: Wall, NJ
Fairly complete roster attached.


Attachments:
NJMT Collection 12-20-2017.pdf [117.66 KiB]
Downloaded 215 times
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 Post subject: Re: NJ Museum of Transportation Woes and Possible Eviction
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:25 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 362
Location: Pure Michigan
What became of Lehigh Coal and Navigation Company #51? The document says it was sold to a canal museum. If it is the one in Easton, PA, they no longer have the locomotive.


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 Post subject: Re: NJ Museum of Transportation Woes and Possible Eviction
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:33 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2267
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
NS 3322 wrote:
What became of Lehigh Coal and Navigation Company #51? The document says it was sold to a canal museum. If it is the one in Easton, PA, they no longer have the locomotive.


Rome, New York?

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Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
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 Post subject: Re: NJ Museum of Transportation Woes and Possible Eviction
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:19 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
Posts: 850
For Lehigh Coal #51 see:

https://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocom ... isplay=849


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 Post subject: Re: NJ Museum of Transportation Woes and Possible Eviction
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5660
Location: southeastern USA
As usual, I'm a bit disturbed about what we don't know here in terms of making an accurate assessment of what the "danger" may be or potential strategies for remediation.

Some posters have "spoken to a person / people" and gotten no favorable response about acquiring unused stuff sitting around. Is there a legitimate contact with the authority to speak for the organization who can be approached, and if so who and how?

Opinions range from "the scrapper is on his way" to "no hurry" - the described actions of the management of the organization seem to be of disinterest in vigorously pursuing options or favorably reacting to inquiries. Is there a serious deadline which is likely to be enforced approaching? Is the management rationally aware if there is? How realistic is the management's perception of its situation, any realistic strategies for reinventing itself on site, potential moves to a different site, actual value of the stuff laying around rusting, actively trying to find new responsible homes for its collections, etc?

Either something needs to be done or doesn't. Either the management is realistic and working through a plan or dealing in magical thinking or simply incompetent or in denial. they can be worked with or they can't be dealt with.

What's really going on? until the situation is understood no amount of agonizing or effort is going to be productive.

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Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: NJ Museum of Transportation Woes and Possible Eviction
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
Posts: 319
Location: Ipswich, UK
They seem to be still running trains there, or were fairly recently, as the June 2019 edition of Railpace has a photo of an "Easter Bunny Express" taken on 20th April this year.

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 Post subject: Re: NJ Museum of Transportation Woes and Possible Eviction
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:05 am 

Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 10:59 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Matawan, NJ
With respect to the discussion of NJMT By-Laws changes and disenfranchisement of members, the new rule gives voting rights exclusively to active participants during the annual membership period. Active is defined as contributing at least 75 hours as a volunteer during that period. The only voting actually done by the members is for re-election of individuals to the board of trustees. Initial trustee membership has been by invitation to a member from the sitting board.

For a large part of its existence, the museum had six membership categories, three non-voting and three voting. Non-voting included Annual (for an individual), Family (just as it sounds) and Operating (for members 14 through 17 years old with working privileges). Voting categories were Life (a one-time fee membership that offered operating privileges), Senior Operating (age 18 and older) and Charter (a special category originally given to active members at the time of NJMT incorporation, it was also awarded to members for service on the board of trustees, and to Senior Operating members for extended periods of volunteer service. The color of the membership card was gold). This all worked fine for lots of years mostly because voting was a rubber stamp process, regardless of any existing controversies or roiling suppressed emotions. Also because the reigning "Macher" of the organization for a long time was a strong self-centered personality with time flexibility and presence to dominate the organization. A successful challenge required a commitment "to the death" which was not really an attractive option for the typical member.

Things changed a bit following a regime change in 1994. Members had more opportunity to contribute in a productive and satisfying way. Some also took the opportunity to be more openly disruptive when it suited them or to be critical of someone's very successful work because they didn't do it in a manner either "traditional" or otherwise acceptable to the complainer. I think this phenomenon is commonly known now as "Empowerment". As the new century progressed, intra-organizational crankiness continued with "Special Meetings" being demanded by the Unhappy. The principal charge in these cases was usually, to put it simply, that Management Sucked!! I found much of this to be personality-driven rather than a response to evil, criminal or other unsavory behavior. After several years of these goings-on, the board, with the assistance of a paid attorney, revised the by-laws to reduce the likelihood of a "Coup" or other disruption to the organization by persons who were not regular participants.

So . . . if ya' wanna vote, ya' gotta put in the time.

I'll consider making comments on other issues in this thread separately.

John.

John P. Lyle, II
Matawan. NJ.

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 Post subject: Re: NJ Museum of Transportation Woes and Possible Eviction
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:26 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1811
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
I have a bit of a soft spot in my heart for this outfit as it's where I started my active involvement with private sector steam when it was known as the Pine Creek RR.

I've been a " Life Member" forever although I haven't received any communications from them in years. I guess I outlived my "life" time allotment?

Anyhow. my strong advice to any of you interested in this is to listen carefully to Mr. May as he knows from whence he speaks.

Ross Rowland


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