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 Post subject: An Old Challenge, New Summary
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:19 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3916
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
From Railfan and Railroad, "What Gets Preserved, and Why?"

https://railfan.com/what-gets-preserved-and-why/


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 Post subject: Re: An Old Challenge, New Summary
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:36 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1751
Location: Back in NE Ohio
As little B&O later steam that was preserved, it would have been none, had Q3 Mike 4500 and P7 5300, President Washington not been rescued from Striegel scrap in Baltimore. I was surprised to find that out a year or so ago, that they weren't set aside by the B&O for the museum when they were retired. And there are still many holes in the collection. C&O did a much better job of setting aside historic steam locomotives, but even they failed on several counts - no Mountains, or Mikados, or Pacifics, or Texas Types, etc., and the one Hudson saved was an odd-ball streamliner. Pennsy did a much better job than most.


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 Post subject: Re: An Old Challenge, New Summary
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:43 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6405
Location: southeastern USA
I'm not sure I get the geographical imperative of the author given that a locality isn't always a part of a preservation organizations mission.

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“God, the beautiful racket of it all: the sighing and hissing, the rattle and clack of the cars over the rails. These were the sounds that made America the greatest country on earth." Jonathan Evison


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 Post subject: Re: An Old Challenge, New Summary
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:58 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:49 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Los Altos, CA
Dave wrote:
I'm not sure I get the geographical imperative of the author given that a locality isn't always a part of a preservation organizations mission.


it depends on the mission of the institution. RYM of PA gets away with displaying a V&T locomotive because it was built in the state. They would have a more difficult time justifying keeping an SP tunnel motor.

BH


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 Post subject: Re: An Old Challenge, New Summary
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1409
Location: Philadelphia, PA
C&O had lotsa money and could afford to donate steam engines.

B&O did not have lotsa money and had closed the B&O Museum. They sold 4500 and 5300 to Ed Striegel who had a locomotive salvage yard in Baltimore City.

Around 1963, C&O money came to B&O. Ed gladly sold the two back to B&O where they were part of the reopening of the B&O Museum in 1964. They're still there.

In August, 1964, riders had come to Baltimore from Philadelphia for "Iron Horse Days," steam-powered excursions between Baltimore and Washington. Power was RDG T-1 2100, consist was mostly RDG open-window coaches. A B&O A/C coach, Race Train Diner, dome sleeper and sleeper-obs came along.

A few years later, RDG had 2100 and 2101 to be sold. RDG's new President was Charlie Bertrand, who had been a B&O man most of his career to that point. Bertrand sold the two T-1's to Ed, knowing how he had treated 4500 and 5300.

Sure enough Ed sat on them until Ross Rowland came along.

Phil Mulligan


Last edited by EJ Berry on Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: An Old Challenge, New Summary
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:08 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm
Posts: 216
I don't understand some people's fixation on repatriating equipment either.

Back when the Y6 was leased from St. Louis, and again when it was returned, there was quite some fuss from individuals over how it "didn't belong" at the NMOT (despite that museum having been the ones with the foresight to make sure one was preserved as part of the national collection they have). NMOT actually got real angry phone calls because they had the "nerve" to ask for the 2156 back as promised, declined to extend the lease, and refused to sell it. (Since then, I've heard stirrings that these activities soured them enough that a similar lease will happen again "over a dead body")

I suppose many people who follow this train of thought should be more angry with themselves or their predecessors for not having the foresight to preserve an example of their own more locally, despite there having been two examples that could have been acquired and preserved well into the 1970s. I sure wish the same about a lot of things that we, in hindsight, should have preserved and either didn't or couldn't.

The museums that got what they could when they could, and have invested in safekeeping them for decades are the ones that really "deserve" to have it. If you think differently, you can always do the accepted practice of proposing a sale or trade. Asking never hurts.

Until then, I am just glad we have what we have, and believe we should put more thought into preserving today what we believe our decendants will wish we would have tomorrow- this applies to what is and is not in museums- after all, just because an item is at one now, doesn't mean it's been saved and always will be.

Heck, having a collection that includes things from various geographical locations can help draw people to come and see your museum too, especially if yours is the only place they can see a real "insert thing here*


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 Post subject: Re: An Old Challenge, New Summary
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:05 pm
Posts: 142
PaulWWoodring wrote:
As little B&O later steam that was preserved, it would have been none, had Q3 Mike 4500 and P7 5300, President Washington not been rescued from Striegel scrap in Baltimore. I was surprised to find that out a year or so ago, that they weren't set aside by the B&O for the museum when they were retired. And there are still many holes in the collection. C&O did a much better job of setting aside historic steam locomotives, but even they failed on several counts - no Mountains, or Mikados, or Pacifics, or Texas Types, etc., and the one Hudson saved was an odd-ball streamliner. Pennsy did a much better job than most.


B&O in the late 50's had serious financial issues. They ended the passenger service to New York at the end of April 1958. 1958 was also the year steam was last used in revenue service. B&O needed cash and would get it any way they could. Revenue from scrap sales was cash. As a B&O'er with a family legacy to the laying of the first stone on July 4, 1828 it is a tough pill to swallow that the B&O was saved by the influx of money from the C&O that started in 1962.


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