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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:19 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 390
Location: Northern WV
Richard Glueck wrote:
Oh heck, allow me to "throttle" the subject even further and wonder aloud, will we see a 2-10-4 under steam on AOS's rails? How fantastic to see something that long and heavy roll by under power!

Wait! Who said "foam."?

A copy and paste from the latest AOS Roundhouse Report


"Some may question why B&LE 643 will not be moved by rail. The answer, again, is based on the huge locomotive’s extreme weight and rigid wheelbase length, both of which exceed the maximum bridge capacity and minimum curvature existing on the Ohio Central Railroad."

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Roger Cole


Last edited by WVNorthern on Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:26 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1193
Should I be concerned that there is no mention of the ex-Big Emma tender in the discussions of moving? Should we be acting to confirm it can be saved if AOS doesn't want it?

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R.M.Ellsworth


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:51 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2483
Location: Northern Illinois
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

Now, I'm wondering what The Hon. Mr. Anderson and his co-workers think of the idea of a B&LE 2-10-4 arriving at Leaman Place and rolling through Long TANGENT.......


I fixed that for you...

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:53 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:55 am
Posts: 102
I am sure AoS must have considered this option, so just for curiosity:

Cargill salt and McKees Rocks forgings are not far from 643, and they do use tracks. Why is it not an option to disassemble the loco as planned, make an agreement with one of the companies and load the big components there? The paperwork for the 700 yards of heavy road transport might be quite a bit less dramatic.


Mike


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:46 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:50 pm
Posts: 469
Yes, there is active rail industrial rail nearby. The short answer is that I think it would be asking a LOT of CSXT to approve moving an all-plain bearing steam locomotive over their core mainline.

The upside to working with the state and local DOT's is that they really don't care WHAT you are moving. If you pay for the proper engineering reviews and route surveys and your load fits within their clearance envelopes and acceptance criteria, then away you go.

Rob Gardner


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:19 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:55 am
Posts: 102
Rob Gardner wrote:
Yes, there is active rail industrial rail nearby. The short answer is that I think it would be asking a LOT of CSXT to approve moving an all-plain bearing steam locomotive over their core mainline.


As AoS wrote, the boiler will be separated from the chassis. The locomotive will be in parts anyway.

Those parts could be loaded on flat cars, just the way 1309 was moved, so CSX couldn't care less about the type of bearings.

Again, to those "in the know" and just for curiosity, I'd like to know why this option was none in this case.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:24 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:08 pm
Posts: 316
Location: Amherst, Oh
Maybe they just didn't want to do it that way.


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:19 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 390
Location: Northern WV
484Mike wrote:
Rob Gardner wrote:
Yes, there is active rail industrial rail nearby. The short answer is that I think it would be asking a LOT of CSXT to approve moving an all-plain bearing steam locomotive over their core mainline.


As AoS wrote, the boiler will be separated from the chassis. The locomotive will be in parts anyway.

Those parts could be loaded on flat cars, just the way 1309 was moved, so CSX couldn't care less about the type of bearings.

Again, to those "in the know" and just for curiosity, I'd like to know why this option was none in this case.

Mike


I'm not "in the know" or "in the loop" with this engine, but here is my take.
The switch that led to the spur where the locomotive is currently sitting has been removed. I also believe that the active track has been regraded making restoration of the switch a very costly proposition. They could try to use another active spur somewhere nearby, but it would require costly cranes and heavy-duty highway trailers anyway to load it and once you've done that, why bother with the extra expense of doing the reverse just to have it arrive by rail? Most of their recent acquisitions have arrived via the highway.

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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:55 pm 

Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 10:03 am
Posts: 110
WVNorthern wrote:
484Mike wrote:
Rob Gardner wrote:
Yes, there is active rail industrial rail nearby. The short answer is that I think it would be asking a LOT of CSXT to approve moving an all-plain bearing steam locomotive over their core mainline.


As AoS wrote, the boiler will be separated from the chassis. The locomotive will be in parts anyway.

Those parts could be loaded on flat cars, just the way 1309 was moved, so CSX couldn't care less about the type of bearings.

Again, to those "in the know" and just for curiosity, I'd like to know why this option was none in this case.

Mike



I'm not "in the know" or "in the loop" with this engine, but here is my take.
The switch that led to the spur where the locomotive is currently sitting has been removed. I also believe that the active track has been regraded making restoration of the switch a very costly proposition. They could try to use another active spur somewhere nearby, but it would require costly cranes and heavy-duty highway trailers anyway to load it and once you've done that, why bother with the extra expense of doing the reverse just to have it arrive by rail? Most of their recent acquisitions have arrived via the highway.

Not to mention, the Ohio Central’s track can’t handle 643. They would have to go through the OC to get to the roundhouse by rail.


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:58 pm
Posts: 963
AOS knows what they are doing. Be glad the 643 is in good hands and sit back and enjoy the show.


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:14 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 446
Anyone in the know happen to be able to confirm the Big Emma tender is safe or in danger of being scrapped?

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:55 am
Posts: 102
WVNorthern wrote:
I'm not "in the know" or "in the loop" with this engine, but here is my take.
The switch that led to the spur where the locomotive is currently sitting has been removed. I also believe that the active track has been regraded making restoration of the switch a very costly proposition.


Yes we know. This has been discussed here in this thread.

Quote:
They could try to use another active spur somewhere nearby, but it would require costly cranes and heavy-duty highway trailers anyway to load it and once you've done that, why bother with the extra expense of doing the reverse just to have it arrive by rail?


Why? Probably because the lots of paperwork and safety requirements to get the parts out of the city by road due to weak bridges etc. - also discussed here - might bring more troubles, costs, requirements than a 700-yard-heavy-duty transport over two streets? Who knows? ;-)

I am absolutely sure AoS know exactly what to do and that they found the best solution. I just like to know why the transport a la 1309 is not feasible in this situation.

And as they are very nice and responsive guys, I will know one day! ;-)

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:18 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:34 pm
Posts: 35
Location: Brewster, Ohio
BigBoy 4023 wrote:
Anyone in the know happen to be able to confirm the Big Emma tender is safe or in danger of being scrapped?

Robert

The Aux tender has been sold but I was asked not to release it.
The Alco switcher is for sale or parts.


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:32 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 446
Thanks for the update. Good to know the aux tender is safe and sound.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:55 pm
Posts: 739
Location: Warren, PA
I ran into this locomotive when it was still into the Greenville, PA roundhouse back about 1975 and never forgot it.

It was there with the 2-8-0 and the 0-10-2.

I've also participated in enough studies of the thing to fully appreciate the issues about moving it, let alone running it, and a plan to disassemble it to move it makes perfect sense. That solves about every problem that exists with it to even preserve it. For it's wheel arrangement, it still is one of the heaviest locomotives I've ever studied.

I couldn't be happier to see AOS get it, and if it has to be mailed in Amazon Prime boxes to get it there, if that's the plan that can be actually implemented, I endorse it.

For those of you that haven't tried to even temporarily put a turnout back in PTC territory on a Class-1 railroad...believe me....this is the way to go.


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