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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:24 am
Posts: 59
Location: Cleveland, OH
Kasgro Rail Corporation is headquartered in Newcastle,PA. and they make Schnabel cars and repair them there. There are always new heavy duty cars or cars that need repair or alteration in Newcastle. Maybe they could help if someone asks? They might be a good resource for other projects that involve moving heavy objects. http://www.kasgro.com/general.html


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 3:08 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 606
G. W. Laepple wrote:
A potential stumbling block to getting 643 out of its present location by road, even in pieces: no matter which way you go, there are underpasses that may restrict the height of the load(s). Several right angle turns on relatively narrow streets are also involved.


The biggest stumbling block, both in the past and for the next few months, is most likely Mr. Campbell. I hope she gets saved but to be honest BLE 643 is getting pretty high on my "who cares" meter.


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:43 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 207
All this talk about making the move more complicated than necessary (and probably impossible). From the readily accessible info, I think you can quit the highway theories. As GWL said, I don't think you're going to get a 643-loaded Schnabel around those narrow local streets, and the only way out of there via highway is the aging McKees Rocks bridge. Anyone want to guess what PennDOT will say when you ask to move a complete locomotive over it? With Schnabel, I'm figuring about 600,000 pounds in a 240' rig. To go directly west you have to go under the bridge and while there's no height posted, I guess you'd be cleaning stack, domes and cab off if you could even get under it at all. To go east you'd have to make a hard right turn onto a very narrow ramp that looks to be impossible even for a fully articulated Schnabel. Just getting to the bridge, there are several low main phone cables that cross Helen St, anchored immediately adjacent to the street, so those would all have to be raised by their owners to get through. The south end of Helen St is posted with a 5 ton weight limit. For the other route - bridge clearances on the three bridges necessary to go out via River Ave are posted as 13'6", 13'6", and 14'6", so neither tender or complete loco are going that way. I don't see any way out for 643 by highway, except in small pieces.

About 450 feet of temporary track and a few truckloads of stone would get from the current siding bumping post to 643 if someone can get the right person at CSX on the phone. Either order your flat cars from TTX very soon if you want them before July or saw the engine a bit to line it up with an extended siding and roll it north to some other industrial spot where you can load it later. I'd guess that CSX would prefer the former, and the property where it sits now is paved and looks perfectly suitable for cranes or sidewinders to plop it onto flats.

Good luck to anyone with the pockets and pull to get it out via rail, and the 132lb mainline railroad to run a steam hammer on.

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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 5:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 566
Location: Winters, TX
Okay, this is a stupid question but couldn't the locomotive simply be pulled forward off of the property? The tracks appear to still exist although I'm sure they would need some heavy repair. This would at least buy some time to move the 643 if a last minute buyer should appear.

And I take it that no attempt is being made to save the diesel or water tender?


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 5:44 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 445
Charlie, I haven't seen much mention of either sadly. I'd think there would be a taker for the N&W water canteen. They are old Big Emma L&N 2-8-4 tender conversions and would be ideal for any mainline excursion locomotive. ATSF 3751 doesn't have their own water car. They borrow SP 4449's water tender. The new outfit getting started KSH has two large locomotives but only one water car on site.

Someone out there needs a N&W style water canteen. Question is who? Could Reading 2100 or the Blue Mountain & Reading 2102 use the water car? Do they know about it being available?

Is this not the same fellow who takes care of this locomotive?

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=43298

Looks like he was looking for starter batteries for the Alco S1.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 6:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:07 pm
Posts: 32
Relisted, at a lower price:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1944-Baldwin-L ... 0667.m2042


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:58 pm
Posts: 963
Charlie wrote:
Okay, this is a stupid question but couldn't the locomotive simply be pulled forward off of the property? The tracks appear to still exist although I'm sure they would need some heavy repair. This would at least buy some time to move the 643 if a last minute buyer should appear.




the track 643 is on is no longer connected to the mainline.


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:57 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 903
Dave Lewandoski wrote:
Charlie wrote:
Okay, this is a stupid question but couldn't the locomotive simply be pulled forward off of the property? The tracks appear to still exist although I'm sure they would need some heavy repair. This would at least buy some time to move the 643 if a last minute buyer should appear.




the track 643 is on is no longer connected to the mainline.

Is the entirety of the disconnected siding on property that is now being redeveloped or is part of the siding on someone else's property, say CSX?


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:10 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 151
Even if you had the money you don't have the time to move it out using a heavy duty trailer as shown in the previous photos. I had several conversations years ago with Mr Forney who owns the Forney transportation museum in Denver, Colorado. We talked about the moving of Big Boy #4005 to a new museum several miles away. He said it took months of planning and hundreds of pages of paperwork just to lay down a few blocks of panel track. There was electricity, gas, and water lines all running under the route of the panel track. He had to hire all sorts of advisors, specialists, etc, who would calculate the PSI of pressure the locomotive was pushing into the ground. Then the city advisors would look at the data and send it to their experts which took a lot of time and money.

He also had to hire several emergency crews (water dept, public service dept, etc) to be on site in case anything broke along the line. The city said there would be substantial fines if anything broke. Some electricity lines had to be moved, roads had to be closed etc. In all it cost him over $600,000 dollars just to move it a few miles. This is also in 1990's dollars.


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:26 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:50 pm
Posts: 469
PMC,

What is left of the siding 643 sits on is on the property that has been or is being sold.

The Schnabel Trailer idea is not only complicated by the difficulty in going over or under any city/interstate bridges but also weight restrictions on the actual city streets and the loading impact of this superload on below grade water, electric and storm sewer structures. I drove around the property back in February and again in early April and the roads are in very rough shape to say the least so I can only surmise the utilities underground have not been improved in a fairly long time either. I doubt that City of Pittsburgh or McKees Rocks DPW folks would be easily sold on approving a permit for such a massive superload.

I still come back to my last post and last thoughts that making a temporary connection from the bumper end to the CSXT siding is the only realistic way of getting 643 out unless it's greatly dismantled and taken out in a number of smaller loads for reassembly. You would still need one hell of a long trailer to take the chassis of the locomotive whether it's with or without the engine or trailing truck attached.

I have heretofore refrained from calling Glenn myself because I just don't have the time or energy right now to try to do anything more and influence anything beyond banging away on this keyboard right now, not to mention my own past experience as well as that of so many others. I warned him a number of years ago of the CSXT clearance improvement work that was going to do what it did to his access and he failed to heed the warning and take action then.

IMHO, the canteen and Alco should be sold ASAP to make some seed $ to put towards saving/moving the 643. The Alco was robbed of a fair amount of copper wiring a few years ago so she can't move without new traction motor cables at a minimum and new batteries from what I have been told.

Rob Gardner


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:34 pm
Posts: 35
Location: Brewster, Ohio
Good evening, I'm just hoping on here to say I had no notice of the sale of 643 or the 60 day notice when I had seen Glenn the week before. Also the Ebay posting was not mine as all of my sales are Model train related. I wish nothing but the best for Glenn as many have stated they have worked with him in some way before. We all know we can all only help so much. As the old statement goes you can lead a horse to water but can't force it to drink.
In better terms it was a pleasure to get to do some of the things I was able to when the chance was there to assist Glenn and David.

A. Treece.


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:42 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3611
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
The engine has shown up on a page called Barn Finds. This is mostly about finding old cars that are still intact, but today, the subject is the 643:

https://barnfinds.com/railroad-find-194 ... l5CojcPWUY


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 7:09 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:52 pm
Posts: 139
Location: Pittsburgh
"Is the entirety of the disconnected siding on property that is now being redeveloped or is part of the siding on someone else's property, say CSX?"

Per the Allegheny County Real Estate website, on the opposite side of the fence is a paper street followed by several parcels owned by the Pittsburgh & Ohio Central. (parcels 43-C-250-0-1, 43-C-250-0-2, and 43-C-250-9 on the attached.) Make a deal with Genesee & Wyoming, the P&OC's parent, and you might be able to get 643 to a temporary safe haven.

Curiously, the same website indicates that Parcel 43-C-205, where the locomotive current sits, hasn't been sold since 2012, but that's likely only a because the website hasn't been updated since the property closing.

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 9:49 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:29 am
Posts: 74
Location: Michigan
This story captures the formula of intrigue, conflict, hope and sadness.

"... our last idea was our best idea."

To come up to speed on the locomotive, I scrolled back through 81 pages of discussion here
at RYPN. It took a while to sift out the helpful comments to learn more about 643's past.

Conversations back in the late '90s and early 2000's pretty much assessed the future that is now "today".
Some predictions made back then were spot on as to what would (likely) and eventually happen.

One idea I did not come across related to moving the engine is... the locomotive is "feet" from the Ohio River.
Unless I missed it, no one suggested putting it on a barge to circumvent the tangled, impassable roadways.

The view from the "gallery" does appear that the engine will likely be left where it is,
and new property owners will conceivably inherit 643 whether they want it or not.

John


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 Post subject: Re: 643 for sale on eBay?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:20 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 616
Looks for all the world that engine's only chance for a 'controlled' outcome would be to offer it for free to anyone who can move it. Same thing for the extra tender and the diesel.

What is the drop dead date?


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