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 Post subject: Re: Automatic vs straight air.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:43 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2323
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Ken Middlebrook wrote:
I volunteer at a miniature park train that uses a straight air system on its equipment.

We "bottle-the-air" on our passenger cars during the run around move after each trip. Bottling air with straight air equipment sets the brakes. During the engine run around, passengers are loading/unloading the cars so "bottling the air" is done for safety to ensure the equipment does not roll during this time.


I don't think that is the same thing discussed here, because in a straight air system, the air line empties as a matter of normal operation during the run. On an automatic air system, what we are really trying to avoid is recharging all those reservoirs on the cars, which needs a lot of air and time.

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 Post subject: Re: Question for Kelly Anderson of the Strasburg RR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:52 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:58 pm
Posts: 10
The key in Mr. Anderson's response is that his equipment is "attended" during the runaround move.


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 Post subject: Re: Question for Kelly Anderson of the Strasburg RR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:34 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:05 pm
Posts: 82
PMC wrote:
The tone of the OP is disrespectful, IMHO. It sounds like an answer is being demanded.


Overmod wrote:
I have a question, too. I see Kelly has the PM feature activated. This is a shining example of a question that could, and I think should, have been asked in private, in which case furthermore the wording or implied tone wouldn't have mattered.

Why was it not sent as a PM?


And we all wonder why we can't get along once more?! I asked a question with honorable intentions so I would learn something. As stated in my original post I did not respond on the OGR thread and came here to the source. If Mr. Anderson was not the person to set me straight, then who? Based on past threads I thought Mr. Anderson would be kind enough to reply which he did. I did not 'demand' an answer - had Mr. Anderson never responded I would shrug and let this thread die. I am gratified others thought enough of the topic to comment about 'bottling the air' and I have learned from those people since I have no practical experience with train operations. (I've done supervised throttle time paid sessions but that is not the same thing.)

Don't understand why PMC and Overmod are so quick to jump on me here. I tried to word my question in a respectful manner and be polite about it. Sorry if that was not good enough for you two.

Didn't occur to me to send Mr. Anderson a PM. I guess all education/discussion should be private so others here can't learn from it either? At that point then we no longer need this forum, right? No wonder rail preservation is having difficulties much of the time attracting/retaining new blood which is hardly a new topic around here.

So if I have offended anyone here including PMC and Overmod I apologize. That was never my intention with my question about Strasburg "bottling the air" which was a topic started by someone else on the OGR forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Question for Kelly Anderson of the Strasburg RR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:10 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 491
I thought it was an interesting question. I actually noticed a conductor on the Strasburg this weekend open both angle cocks and thought “huh that seems different” but didn’t really know exactly what it meant. Now I do.


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 Post subject: Re: Question for Kelly Anderson of the Strasburg RR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:05 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 410
Location: Danbury, CT
I didn’t sense a disrespectful tone in the OP’s initial post, but I guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder. Wink, wink.

FRA rules establish the minimum operating requirements. Railroads may adopt standard operating rules published by NORAC or GCOR, which may contain additional requirements. The individual railroad company/operator may also choose to add specific requirements by issuing special instructions regarding certain operations. None of these additional rules or requirements replace the FRA minimums, only expand upon them.

If the FRA is happy with SRC’s operating practices, all is well. I have witnessed and even participated in discussion before regarding
“bottling the air”. I for one, appreciate Kelly’s response explaining their practice. I also enjoyed the comment about railroaders not being afraid to railroad.

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 Post subject: Re: Question for Kelly Anderson of the Strasburg RR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:13 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:06 pm
Posts: 2
For comparison purposes, approximately how much time is being saved by using these older triple valves? In other words how long would the run around on an 8-9 car train take if they had to pump the air back up?


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 Post subject: Re: Question for Kelly Anderson of the Strasburg RR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:35 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1701
Location: Strasburg, PA
Robert J wrote:
PMC wrote:
And we all wonder why we can't get along once more?! I asked a question with honorable intentions so I would learn something. As stated in my original post I did not respond on the OGR thread and came here to the source. If Mr. Anderson was not the person to set me straight, then who? Based on past threads I thought Mr. Anderson would be kind enough to reply which he did. I did not 'demand' an answer - had Mr. Anderson never responded I would shrug and let this thread die. I am gratified others thought enough of the topic to comment about 'bottling the air' and I have learned from those people since I have no practical experience with train operations. (I've done supervised throttle time paid sessions but that is not the same thing.)

Didn't occur to me to send Mr. Anderson a PM. I guess all education/discussion should be private so others here can't learn from it either? At that point then we no longer need this forum, right? No wonder rail preservation is having difficulties much of the time attracting/retaining new blood which is hardly a new topic around here.
First of all, I'm Kelly.

"Mr. Anderson" is the butt hole trying to dismantle Amtrak.

Second, Our initials are SRC, not SRS.

Third, no harm, no foul. Bottling the air is a cardinal sin in modern freight cars with their propensity to self release, and that is all that any professional railroader active today knows about. However, our P valves don't even have an emergency reservoir to feed a self release, and it isn't a problem.

Chris Webster wrote:
Robert J wrote:
Over on the OGR forum
Because there is so much disinformation on that site, a lot of modelers refer to it as "NK", which is short for North Korea.
Previously, I had posted for a while on the O-Gauge Real Trains forum in an attempt to elevate the conversation with more facts and less slandering and innuendo, but was overmatched by mean spirited groupies hanging on every word of their posting heroes, and I found myself being dragged down to their level instead. So I have "left them to themselves", stopped posting, and deleted all of my posts. Your mileage may vary.

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C. S. Forester

Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: Question for Kelly Anderson of the Strasburg RR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:53 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1173
Quote:
"Didn't occur to me to send Mr. Anderson a PM. I guess all education/discussion should be private so others here can't learn from it either?"


The take-home message here isn't that there are 'wrong' and 'right' ways to phrase a fair question. It is that a message explicitly noted in the subject line as being directed to a particular individual needs to go to that individual, not as some 'open letter' to RyPN at large. In the past there have been plenty of posts made with more or less 'muckraking' intent, designed to spur popcorn-making more than 'inquiring minds want to know', and I think it was in this sense that you were criticized.

The point is that once you asked your question to the individual it was addressed to, you and he could easily post the results to the greater list as a true matter of interest, unmistakable as being (as then presented) a civil question of significant importance being answered by a reliable source.

I not so humbly suggest that any similar sort of question, going forward, get 'hashed out' in private before sending it out as an open letter. There's plenty of time to re-post it as a more general question if the original people fail to answer, or seem to be avoiding anything of interest... but I would still very, very strongly not advocate calling out a particular person as if they were a 'culprit' for something widely assumed to be problematic. I think we have lost several regular participants over just this sort of thing here.

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 Post subject: Re: Question for Kelly Anderson of the Strasburg RR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:14 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Despite any protocol issues, this has been a very interesting, worthwhile, and educational discussion. Thank you to those who have added information.


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 Post subject: Re: Question for Kelly Anderson of the Strasburg RR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 569
Location: New Franklin, OH
Ahhh.... I kinda wondered myself about your and PMC's initial responses but I see your point now. I'm sure there was no disrespect or a "calling out" intended by the OP. Though perhaps a gentler approach next time will avoid antagonizing? That said, some good info has come out of the post.

We would occasionally bottle the air when rearranging a consist before an excursion but always with two or more people on the ground and handbrakes set. Doing that saved time over having to wait for air after each cut/couple (unless someone opened an angles cock too fast and put the whole works into emergency).

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 Post subject: Re: Question for Kelly Anderson of the Strasburg RR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:50 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 882
Kelly botched the quote functions, he attributed Robert J's post to me, but that's ok.


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 Post subject: Re: Question for Kelly Anderson of the Strasburg RR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:15 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 491
Overmod wrote:
Quote:
I not so humbly suggest that any similar sort of question, going forward, get 'hashed out' in private before sending it out as an open letter. There's plenty of time to re-post it as a more general question if the original people fail to answer, or seem to be avoiding anything of interest... but I would still very, very strongly not advocate calling out a particular person as if they were a 'culprit' for something widely assumed to be problematic. I think we have lost several regular participants over just this sort of thing here.


I not so humbly suggest you not derail threads by suggesting they not be started in the first place. It doesn’t really matter... it was an interesting question with interesting answers and many of us learned something.


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 Post subject: Re: Question for Kelly Anderson of the Strasburg RR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1701
Location: Strasburg, PA
PMC wrote:
Kelly botched the quote functions, he attributed Robert J's post to me, but that's ok.
What do you expect from a hack artist hired by a butchering bastard?

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Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: Question for Kelly Anderson of the Strasburg RR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 882
Kelly Anderson wrote:
What do you expect from a hack artist hired by a butchering bastard?

Someone on here has the tagline I love: "If you can't fix it with a hammer you have an electrical problem." , sometimes I feel like fixing my computer with a hammer.


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 Post subject: Re: Question for Kelly Anderson of the Strasburg RR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:01 pm 
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Posts: 97
Location: Alberta, Canada
PMC wrote:
Kelly Anderson wrote:
What do you expect from a hack artist hired by a butchering bastard?

Someone on here has the tagline I love: "If you can't fix it with a hammer you have an electrical problem." , sometimes I feel like fixing my computer with a hammer.


"If it ain't broke, you're not tryin!"

- Red Green

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