Car 8 (one of the ex Revere Beach ones) certainly had a noticeable sag 10 years ago...

and it looked rather more noticeable (not surprisingly) using a telephoto lens!


However, the interior was turned out in excellent condition, although the painted cove paneling was showing signs of distortion..


Have any of the passenger cars been stored under cover since the line closed, or have they been out in the elements?

Even with #8’s condition, I think it is important to recognize that #8 is the only actual full passenger car able to be used by the EBT. The EBT owns Combine 14, Combine 15, Coach 8, and parlor 20. The FEBT owns Combine 18 and Baggage 29 (both awaiting extensive work) and they’re leading combine 16, located in NJ. So in terms of actual full coaches there certainly is a lack of available full coaches. Not only would building new ones be easier for the old stock but also be able to provide the line with regular non combine coaches.

Another project that would be a brilliant "combination" project:

Design (with a design and engineering class), then build (using parts scavenged from a worst-case hopper that fell apart because someone looked at it funny in its rusted state) a handicapped-accessibility old-look "combine" with a hydraulic lifting mechanism powered by an onboard motor started as needed.

Change seating as needed for wheelchair width (2-and-1 seating? Half 1-and-1 seating?) so you're not just "loading them like cattle/baggage."

Make this the main-duty "on every train" car. Build another straight coach for regular riders. Charge a premium to ride the 8's "authentic history."

Then you ask for grants to cover "improving ADA compliance, rider accessibility, and capacity while preserving the historical integrity of the historical experience."

They are 100 years old. Steel rusts.

A few years ago, the FEBT built a handicap-accessible car featuring a solar-powered wheelchair lift. If memory serves, it was one of the covered converted boxcars, with the solar panels on the roof.

It's been a few years back, but I was advised by a person very much in the know that a motorized wheelchair lift needed to be electromechanically linked to the train control system such that the train could not move while the lift was in use, and that a manually powered lift had no such requirement - and a manual lift was far more practical and desireable given the likelihood of a malfunction ruining your day..... Nice to know if that's still the case.

It should be noted that the "coved paneling" on the ceilings is really painted oil cloth stretched and tacked to the curve of the roof carline, and the puckered look between the tacks is normal.

The EBT has more rolling stock then they know what to do with. That is a asset! C&T and D&S converted former freight cars to different styles of passenger cars. The EBT is in a unique position to convert real EBT freight cars to passenger cars. That doesn't take into account the machinery is still in place to build NEW EBT passenger cars using EBT machinery that built their current historic fleet in the same buildings!

The EBT has such a gem of opportunities to do things RIGHT and in the exact same way as they did 100 years ago. That can easily been seen as part of the allure of the tourist draw. New and old rolling stock built with the same exact machinery, in the same buildings based on the same design, by the same railroad 100+ years apart!

Offering local college and high school classes in tech working in the blacksmith shop or carpenter shop building real (not replica!) wooden passenger cars with the same equipment can go a long way to help the local workforce, economy, education, and EBT!

The possibilities are endless. Putting the Rockhill Furnace facilities to use by using them for their intended purpose building and maintaining equipment and the railroad. Offering visitors the chance to see exactly what railroading was 100 years ago without being tainted by age. Offering skills and aligning with schools, foundations, groups, businesses with operating, repairing, and building the EBT to a shining symbol for the local economy. With so much potential, in order to achieve it the end goal should be a living railroad in every aspect (Rockhill Furnace facilities in operation as designed, freight stations loading and offloading freight simulations, etc), as well as the goal of building a new tourist museum/building at either end of the line in Mt Union and Robertsdale showing local and EBT history (items from pocketwatches, historical documents, to EBT rolling stock on display, etc) so tourists can go to either end of the line with a destination in mind with Rockhill Furnace right in the middle. I know these ideas will cost a trainload of cash, but with such a rare and fantastic opportunity the EBT offers, if you dream it and work toward it, the money will come! We are seeing just the beginning of this dream.

All the best for all involved bringing the EBT back to life!

Where this argument falls apart is there is no way any vocational school is going to have students operate non OSHA compliant machinery... In fact, I'm not entirely sure the EBT could even have paid employees operate that machinery. I believe volunteers can, at least for the purposes of demonstration.

Aside from that, what freightcars are you suggesting be made into coaches? I thought the roster was almost 100% hopper cars. What, cut windows in the side and let the tourists sit on the cross ridges? The best outcome is to stabilize the roster and preserve it for what it is; the equipment needed to haul coal.

I'll tell you, the new coaches the White Pass & Yukon has been buying for the last twenty five years, don't look bad, and are a proven design.
http://www.whitepassfan.net/rolling-stock/passenger-cars-ii-290-402/368-374/index.html They have oak interiors and look the part for second class accommodations. I don't know if there would be any economy to do an add-on to a White Pass order, but it would be worth looking into.

Further on the above:

As much as it would please a lot of "purists" to completely build new equipment using the tools of old...........

.........NO ONE in their right mind is going to let that shop be put back into service for ANYTHING other than an annual-or-so demonstration which would make a token part or parts to be applied to "new build" or replica cars.

Newer equipment is faster, more accurate, and isn't an artifact to be conserved for future generations. Further, if anyone is going to be trained for professional work, they need to be trained on TODAY'S technology, material, and standards. (Aren't we in, like, the seventh generation of AutoCAD by now?) Preserving the craftsmanship of old has its place, but as education, not production.

Another example: Actual authentic Japanese samurai swords, made (by law) by craftsmen using the authentic metal-layering techniques, will run you $10-30,000 new. A cheap Chinese replica supposedly doing the same thing (ha-ha) will run you $500-2,000. A sword/knife-making company I was acquainted with was using machine rollers, presses, hammers, and the like as "efficiency shortcuts" to mimic the metallurgy in Damascus steel and authentic samurai swords and cranking them out for around $3-4,000 each a while back.

No. Save the shops, show them off once a year, build "kits" elsewhere, and assemble them at Rockhill Furnace.

I didn't consider the OSHA laws. That would be something to look into. The WP&Y replica coaches might be something to consider depending on what their plan is short or long term. I was under the impression the EBT had a collection of freight cars other then hoppers (gondolas, box cars, flat cars at least to some extent), however if the non hopper fleet is sparse they could look into ex D&RG freight cars for conversion. That would sort of leave some to be desired from a EBT historical stand point, however their current passenger cars isn't enough to sustain in the long term. I believe a focus on copies of current EBT passenger cars wouldn't taint the historical fabric as much, but would undoubtedly not be the easiest choice. If they use the parts from some hoppers, they could save a few bucks and retain more EBT history. I really look forward to the future and see how the EBT RR does in the next 5-10 years. That will be the critical era to see how much external fabric is introduced and where they plan to take the old road in the future.

Like many with a soft spot for rail, I feel the loss of so much historical fabric from the railroads since the automobile age. I researched my hometown of Grand Island, Ne and found maps going back to the 1870s. The town was created by the Transcon Railroad in the 1860s by the UP, but at 1 point had 6 railroads serving it with branchlines, and mainlines spreading out like arteries. Roundhouse, blacksmith shop, depots, etc all gone (with 2 exceptions). Only the now BNSF (ex CB&Q) and UP mainlines and a small railyard remain like so many other places. The EBT still has all of its history and I feel, from the loss I never knew in person from my hometown, that the EBT should try to avoid the introduction of external/ foreign rolling stock except as a last resort. I know passenger hauling never was the main purpose of the EBT and compromises will have to be made however.

Josh

The WP&YR passenger cars have been built by various companies with the "Hamilton" name located in the Puget Sound area. These may be associated with the Hamilton family that are long-time Skagway residents and run a construction company in the Skagway - Haines, Alaska area.

Jim, thanks for the info. If the ROW parcel wasn't right next to the station, didn't have tracks on it, and wasn't bracketed by land owned by the RR&C Co., I could see how the Assessor might not want to give it a number.
The sewage treatment plant just north of the creek does have a number. It was subdivided from a larger plot.
I'm going to go back and search south of Pogue and see what ROW may show on the map. I wonder how the assessor would classify a tunnel??

Is there a siding and/or wye between Rockhill and the Pogue bridge?

Not to hijack this thread, but those WP&Y cars look great. Maybe 4 or 5 of them would be a good start for the EBT. Wonder how much they cost? Not cheap I'd bet.
Were their trucks made by the same firm?
Ned