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 Post subject: Re: Blue Coal hopper cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:00 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:05 am
Posts: 104
The old mill in Cobleskill NY had an advertisement on the side for D&H blue coal. I think the building is still there. I haven’t been there in a long time maybe I’ ll take a ride this weekend.
Al


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Coal hopper cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:04 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:09 pm
Posts: 434
Totally fake cars. Although, they are cool...

Blue Coal was originally the moniker of DL&W Coal Sales, which later became Glen Alden when the railroads were forced to sell off the coal interests. Glen Alden later purchased Hudson Coal Co. in 1955 and operated the two side by side. After that everything went downhill for Anthracite.

The thin disks are called scatter tags, and were mixed in with the coal as a sort of advertising. Never seen or heard of them being foil. All of the ones I have seen (or have) are a heavy cardstock so they could burn in the stove.

Image

Blue Coal -
Image

Reading Red Dot
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Coal hopper cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:44 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:13 pm
Posts: 412
Location: Baltimore. MD
Thanks Nova55

Now that I know what I would looking for, I did find one.
Attachment:
060DB582-DE57-455D-8B9F-A07FA36E6398.jpeg
060DB582-DE57-455D-8B9F-A07FA36E6398.jpeg [ 34.49 KiB | Viewed 706 times ]


Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Coal hopper cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:35 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 456
Location: Columbus, OH
Blue CN Hoppers
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-a7_IrcKjdXs/U6JOzIvIq8I/AAAAAAAAOxs/5SlgllKy_hI/s1600/blogwestray+CN+347033+Stellarton+NS+Feb+18-92+by+Conrad+Steeves.jpg

Blue National Steel hopper
https://www.progressiverailroading.com/railproducts/product.aspx?id=34

Blue ballast hopper
http://freightcaramerica.com/products/open-top-hoppers/open-top-hoppers-aggregate-products/ballast-hopper-car/

Blue GATX hoppers
https://www.railwayage.com/mechanical/freight-cars/freightcar-america-to-close-roanoke-plant-open-new-one-in-mexico/

You can lease these blue hoppers
https://freightcaramerica.com/leasing-and-services/freightcar-america-leasing/

Orange Waddell Coal hoppers
http://www.wdwfullthrottle.com/images/waddell1.jpg

Yellow Peabody hoppers
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/fileSendAction/fcType/0/fcOid/81537088168084313/filePointer/81537088168552715/fodoid/81537088168552710/imageType/MEDIUM/inlineImage/true/Hoppers%2520Peabody%2520Coal%25201971.jpg

Red Chicago Central & Pacific hoppers
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wales23/15210945930/

Green Burlington Northern hopper
https://www.flickr.com/photos/50090140@N08/11246735775/

Red, White and Blue N&W hopper:
https://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=205410&nseq=0

Red, White and Blue C&NW hopper
https://marmarinou.tumblr.com/image/162612953704

And just to push the limits, here is a pink (covered) hopper (there are green ones in the train as well)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAK4sFfQqc4

A one-off pink hopper
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3889532

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Coal hopper cars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:38 am 
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Posts: 131
Location: Alberta, Canada
ebtrr wrote:


I feel ashamed to have forgotten about these, considering they are still in service and I have switched them a few times.

They did not last long in their original Nova Scotian coal service, as the mining project they were built for ended in disaster:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westray_Mine

The "Westray Coal" lettering and logo was painted over after the disaster, but with age it has become visible again on some cars.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Coal hopper cars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:56 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1519
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
McHugh Bros. Heavy Hauling, Operator & Lessee of the New Hope & Ivyland RR had a 50 ton ex United States Air Force twin open top hopper painted Oliver Tractor green, NHIR 314. It was scrapped on Tyburn RR in the early 2000s.
I have doubts that any Blue Coal moved in Reading Co. RDG cars, as the Huber breaker was located on a different railroad.


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Coal hopper cars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:16 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:09 pm
Posts: 434
JimBoylan wrote:
McHugh Bros. Heavy Hauling, Operator & Lessee of the New Hope & Ivyland RR had a 50 ton ex United States Air Force twin open top hopper painted Oliver Tractor green, NHIR 314. It was scrapped on Tyburn RR in the early 2000s.
I have doubts that any Blue Coal moved in Reading Co. RDG cars, as the Huber breaker was located on a different railroad.


A somewhat common misconception. Home road cars were always a priority, but Blue Coal moved in whatever cars were available. Same with Reading Anthracite move in more then just RDG cars.

I have the loading reports, and they loaded everything from GN, AA, CNJ, CGA, B&O, PLE, CRP, PMcRY, NKP, CI, L&M, NYC, PRR, ERIE, D&H.pretty much anything you can think of. Also to keep in mind, Huber was not the only breaker Glen Alden had.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Coal hopper cars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:22 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 332
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Car service rules called for a freight car to be moved to or at least toward the owning road, preferably loaded. So if DL&W or D&H had an empty RDG hopper and a load of Blue Coal to be consigned to a coal yard on the RDG, it went in the RDG hopper.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Coal hopper cars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1519
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
Sometimes various Eastern coal roads would want to be included in a Special Car Order that suspended the Car Service Rules on their open top hopper cars. That order required open top hopper cars of the subject roads to be returned empty to the owning road, and prohibited those roads from loading open top hopper cars owned by any other railroad. The order went in and out of favor, and by the 1990s, no longer had to apply to all of the Eastern coal roads at once.


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Coal hopper cars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:15 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:31 pm
Posts: 30
It is quite correct that Blue Coal was tied to the DL&W. So, any reporting marks other that DL&W would be totally inappropriate, if there were indeed "blue coal" hoppers. The coal biz was quite competitive in the day, and anybody else would not likely to have been affiliated.

Back around 1960, my family and I went for dinner at O'Connell's Kingston House. Nearby was a DL&W yard, with many two bay offset hopper cars there. The reporting marks and other data were faded--you could barely see the car numbers! There was plenty of "blue coal" overspray on these cars, but a few were COMPLETELY sprayed with what looked like the blue poster paint that Blue Coal used, and as illustrated by the samples in a previous post. I suspect that this is as close you could get to a proper Blue Coal hopper.

Many coal companies painted the tops of their loaded coal hoppers to show that some lineside types "borrowed" some coal for the stove. I recall seeing a photo of a train of hoppers with the loads painted SILVER for coal that was on its way to Germany as specified by local Congressman Dan Flood that Pennsylvania Anthracite was to be burned at Military bases there.

BTW, the Wanamie operation was THREE FOOT gauge. One Easter Sunday, we were at my grandmother's(who lived in the next town), and before dinner, we went for a quick visit, and saw the three 0-4-0's sitting there banked. This old guy with some faded (but clean) overalls asked us: "What are ya's doing here?" We told him, and he says: "I'll give ya's all a ride!" And so, for a couple hundred feet, my two brothers and I got us a ride! We had something to talk about at dinner!


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Coal hopper cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:51 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 332
Location: Philadelphia, PA
My bad. I didn't realize Wanamie was 3' 0" gage. It was fascinating to watch those low profile lokies moving trains of mine jimmies overland out in the daylight. Alas, video only, not in person.

An RDG hopper could have turned up in DL&W country. Then DL&W would be obligated to return it, and sooner than later to avoid paying per diem. Why not load it to a RDG destination?

Our local coal dealer (served by RDG) featured Jeddo-Highland coal from West Pittston/Wilkes-Barre. So that probably didn't come in RDG cars.

The DL&W sold its coal properties in 1921 following an antitrust court case and they were reorganized as Glen Alden Coal Co.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Coal hopper cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:37 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2460
This has been a fun thread and we haven't even touched on my favorite method of anthracite transportation: boxcars! That's a whole other conversation...

Back to Tim's original post, I wonder if anyone has done the research into which model manufacture was the first to make the classic blue Blue Coal hopper that has since appeared in almost every scale? Somewhere back in time was one person who came up with the design, thought it was cool, and unknowingly started a model railroading tradition.

A few notes:

- It is true that coal was dyed blue at more breakers than just the Huber. For those of us fortunate enough to explore pre-1950s abandoned breakers before they were all (yes all) gone, it was always a treat to find some blue dye remains.

- The Huber was on the CNJ. Remember, it was a regional breaker, meaning it processed coal from other mines. The Wanamie operation was one famous example. The 3' trains brought the coal straight from the mine to the CNJ. The CNJ forwarded it to the Huber. The Huber processed it, dyed it blue and sent it back out via the CNJ.

- Loose car coal shipment is a fascinating topic. Dwight Smith (former B&M agent and founder of the Conway Scenic) created a great presentation on how A-coal and B-coal was shipped to dealers around New England.

- The car usage rules described in the thread are the norm, but it wasn't unheard of for anthracite (A-coal) to be shipped in a B&O hopper usually used for bituminous coal (B-coal).

- In addition to boxcars, gondolas were also used for anthracite loose car service.

- After the A-coal companies and railroads were forced to divest from each other, there were no restrictions on former owner's hoppers serving their own former breakers. It would have been near impossible to enforce this as many breakers were only served by the former company's railroad.

The anthracite industry lead to the first round of the industrial revolution in the USA. It's the reason the first rails were laid. It is a wonderful subject for anyone looking to take on a new "pet" interest.

Rob

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Coal hopper cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:05 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:24 pm
Posts: 462
Location: Scranton, PA
Thank you for all the replies. This all reaffirms what I already knew, but hoped that there was a hole in my knowledge. I am amazed that someone still has pieces of the blue and the red coal.

Every once in a while, people who visit Scranton will ask me how they can get a piece of anthracite to take back home. My best advice is just to take a walk. It's out there. While our streets are not paved with coal, it was so prevalent, that you can't help to see it. Especially if you see where the coal door is on an old house, you can trace a line from where a coal truck or coal wagon would have been to get the coal into the cellar. Coal spilled out, and if it wasnt' picked up right away, it would become part of the ground. The ground has a way of spitting the coal back out, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Coal hopper cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:38 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:09 pm
Posts: 434
Funny you say that - I was just at my local rock and mineral store, and sitting on the shelf was a chunk of Anthracite, about stove sized, for $12!! Now, I know Southwest Michigan is not exactly a coal capital, but I can go get 2 50# bags for that price..

I even took a photo..
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Coal hopper cars
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 109
Red, White and Blue C&NW hopper
https://marmarinou.tumblr.com/image/162612953704

The C&NW's Bicentennial Hopper CNW 137599 was last photographed in service in 2015: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rspicture.aspx?id=881001

Does anyone here have a more recent update? The 40 year rule has passed for interchange service - does it still exist somewhere on the UP network in company service?


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