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 Post subject: Re: Class A Climax locomotive info sought
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:36 am
Posts: 377
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
I noticed that the material in the frame schematic shows yellow pine. Quite a few years ago Keith Christianson was looking for a source for oak to replace the frame rails on his T boilered Class A. He was kind of compulsive about retaining the originality and I had just assumed that was the way it was built. I guess we won't know until it makes its way to Corey and gets unpacked.


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 Post subject: Re: Class A Climax locomotive info sought
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:48 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 68
That is why I cite the reference to yellow pine and the thickness of the side frames as a Secondary Source. Climax may have used oak and/or yellow pine during different time periods. The analysis of A-313 will finally determine what Climax was using in 1902 but not later. Documentation on Class A Climaxes is limited and I do not want to post info as fact unless it appears in a Climax labeled and dated document.

Based on further analysis of the available documentation the "Yellow Pine" note appears on the reverse of a Climax document circa 1926 which has a undated typewritten list of the Side Frame fabrication specs of locomotives from 12 to 100 ton. Those are changed from earlier 1919 - 1921 specs at least on Class C locomotives (re CN 1551).

The list also notes and I quote "15 Ton 5 3/4" x II 3/4" Yellow Pine (May be 7 5/8" wide)"

Why "May be"? Is that a statement of a Climax alternative configuration or a speculation by the writer. Do not know.

Climax may have switched to Yellow Pine due to availability and cost. The Eastern U.S. was being logged out and oak of the length and quality needed may have been harder/costlier to acquire.


Last edited by WESIII on Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Class A Climax locomotive info sought
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:55 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 68
Drawing of Class A-12 Climax Frame as of 1921.


Attachments:
Class A-12 Climax Frame.pdf [106.19 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Class A Climax locomotive info sought
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:55 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 68
Corrected Climax A-12 Drawing. The cited dimensions over End Sills and Coupler Pockets were in error and accidently carried over from the A-15 drawing as the Dimensions were were inserted as Text, and not as a generated measurement in the CADD program.

Sorry about that.


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Class A-12 Climax Frame.pdf [106.13 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Class A Climax locomotive info sought
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:57 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:14 pm
Posts: 171
WESIII wrote:
Corrected Climax A-12 Drawing. The cited dimensions over End Sills and Coupler Pockets were in error and accidently carried over from the A-15 drawing as the Dimensions were were inserted as Text, and not as a generated measurement in the CADD program.

Sorry about that.


No worries. Thanks!

Chris


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 Post subject: Re: Class A Climax locomotive info sought
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:18 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 68
One additional note which I learned while working on CN 1551. The bolts at the corners of the sid side frames were not tight. Although snugged, they were loose enough to allow the trucks to flex. The trucks could flex in the manner of of a parallelogram and vertically as the inside of Climax axle bearing - journal boxes (on the frames were were convex (curved) to allow the axles to follow the track without flexing the truck frame - ) truck frame (.

T?his is one of the reasons Climax locomotives were "famous" for their ability to traverse rough, temporary track. A 3D pdf of a 60-70 Ton Climax journal box F84 is attached as a illustration with exaggerated curves to illustrate how Climax did it.

Note: Requires Adobe Acrobat or Acrobat Reader to view in 3D and rotate, zoom, etc. Browser pdf pre-viewers do not properly display 3D objects. Best viewed in Daylight setting and Solid Outline.

I hope this is clear. If not I will try to elucidate


Attachments:
F84 Journal Box - Exaggerated.pdf [503.3 KiB]
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Last edited by WESIII on Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Class A Climax locomotive info sought
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:14 pm
Posts: 171
WESIII wrote:
One additional note which I learned while working on CN 1551. The bolts at the corners of the sid side frames were not tight. Although snugged, they were loose enough to allow the trucks to flex. The trucks could flex in the manner of of a parallelogram and vertically as the inside of Climax axle bearing - journal boxes (on the frames were were convex (curved) to allow the axles to follow the track without flexing the truck frame - ) truck frame (.

T?his is one of the reasons Climax locomotives were "famous" for their ability to traverse rough, temporary track. A 3D pdf of a 60-70 Ton Climax journal box F84 is attached as a illustration with exaggerated curves to illustrate how Climax did it.

Note: Requires Adobe Acrobat or Acrobat Reader to view in 3D and rotate, zoom, etc. Browser pdf pre-viewers do not properly display 3D objects.

I hope this is clear. If not I will try to elucidate


That is a very cool drawing. Thanks

Chris


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 Post subject: Re: Class A Climax locomotive info sought
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 68
If a 3D pdf of an assembled Climax Journal Box interests anyone, let me know.


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 Post subject: Re: Class A Climax locomotive info sought
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:35 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:26 am
Posts: 75
Location: Princeton, NJ
It would interest me. A live steam model is one day in the works...


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 Post subject: Re: Class A Climax locomotive info sought
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:49 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 68
A few notes on the drawings. There are no extant Climax drawings of the F84 Journal Box, or F88 Journal Box Lid. There may be for the F85 Bearing. A Climax drawing of the Axle does exist so the length, diameter and the 1/2" fillet on the inside are knowns. I have a copy. The drawings were derived from the parts of CN 1551 on which I worked for 6 years. The journal boxes were badly worn and remachined after rebuilding some badly worn surfaces. The curves in the sides were not known and were remachined straight. The rail at Cass is 1000% better than most Climaxes traversed.

I measured and remeasured F84 & F88 and using other Climax drawings spent months drawing and redrawing the journal box, obtaining various dimensions by different methods and making sure to use Imperial measurements in my 3D CADD program. Although not a Climax part per se, I believe a journal cast from the drawings would drop right in and be all but indistinguishable from an original part provided one remembered to allow for shrinkage during the casting process.

The holes in the projections of the bearings are threaded to accept screws to attach a handle to pull and help place the bearings.

To the best of my knowledge and belief Climax used this design for all its Climaxes - just a difference in scale and axle bearings.

Again, use Adobe Acrobat or Acrobat Reader using Daylight Lighting and Solid Outline for best viewing. One can also Hide parts. Note that the locomotive side of the F84 did not print properly in 3D (distorsion). Some issues with my CADD program with 3D pdf printing since 2019 update. I attempted to upload a much cleaner copy but the file size prevents me.

Here is a link to the upgraded 3D pdf. https://s3.amazonaws.com/SIMONTON/F84Jo ... sembly.pdf

The link is now active. Forgot to make pdf Public. My SNAFU


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 Post subject: Re: Class A Climax locomotive info sought
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:55 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 68
The link to the upgraded pdf is now active. Forgot to make it PUBIC.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/SIMONTON/F84Jo ... sembly.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Class A Climax locomotive info sought
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:18 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 68
Found another Climax Doc dated October 4, 1923, which lists the Shaft and Axle Sizes.

A-12 Truck Lineshafts 3" x 5' 7.5"
36" Axle 3.75" x 4' 8.5" -- 42" Axle 3.75" x 5' 2.5" -- Std. 3.75" x 6' 5"
From Excel Spreadsheet -- Bearings 3" x 6" (Fillet included in 6" length)*
* (Per other Climax dwgs in my possession)

A-15 Truck Lineshafts 3" x 5' 7" (Not a typo)
Axles same as A-12.


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 Post subject: Re: Class A Climax locomotive info sought
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:43 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 68
Link to 1 : 12 Scale "Climax" engine with gearbox. Friend of mine who built a small scale Class A Climax using scaled down CN1551 gears also did this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAJhL5fcCaw


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 Post subject: Re: Class A Climax locomotive info sought
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:17 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:26 am
Posts: 75
Location: Princeton, NJ
Do drawings of the Class A engine exist?


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 Post subject: Re: Class A Climax locomotive info sought
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:04 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 68
A few parts only as far as I know. Check the list and comments in the EXCEL file referenced above in this thread.

Hopefully the Corry RAILS group will have the ability to prepare drawings from the Engine on A-313. I prepared drawings of CN 1551, but Corry, PA is a bit far from my base. It took me 6 years on 1551 and that was with quite a number of Climax drawings provided by John Lewis. All I had to do was concentrate on the parts and assemblies for which John did not have drawings. Quite a few but doable. I got ahead of the rebuild with the help of John's drawings but a number of things remain incomplete and will remain so and D&GVRR made some changes from Climax practice when completing the rebuild.

I will encourage them to do do, and I certain that over time they will endeavor to do so.


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