It is currently Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:39 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Regulations
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:43 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1506
I have to wonder if using the word 'amusement' might not open up some of the operations to incurring 'amusement taxes' where they might not at present...

_________________
R.M.Ellsworth


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Regulations
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1547
Location: Youngstown, OH
That is one concern. Another is what Ted Rita addressed earlier in this thread.

_________________
Rick Rowlands
J&L Narrow Gauge Railroad
"The shortest and narrowest Railroad in Ohio"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Regulations
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:00 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:48 pm
Posts: 136
One of the reasons that Indiana has the draconian regulations is that it one time had next to none. This tragic incident at a now defunct park was resulted in the current attitude in that state concerning anything that remotely resembles an amusement ride
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Indiana_Fun_Park


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Regulations
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1547
Location: Youngstown, OH
This is a photo of the incident in Indiana.

Interesting bit of info. that I found about it:

On Thursday, August 11th, 1996, 4-year-old Emily Hunt was paralyzed from the chest down and her 57-year-old grandmother, Nancy Jones was killed after the miniature train ride at the Old Indiana Fun Park derailed and overturned as it approached a curve. The two victims were crushed under the weight of the cars . Upon investigation, the train was traveling much faster than its design speed of 12 miles per hour.

The ride operator claimed to have applied the brakes as the train neared the curve, but it was discovered that many of the ride’s brakes were either broken, missing, or not connected, and that most of the anti-derailment devices were missing. The speedometer was broken, along with the governor, which limits the speed of the train. The track was littered with broken ride parts.

Unbelievably the ride passed two state inspections in the 3-month period prior to the accident – before the safety inspector admitted that he was not qualified to inspect amusement rides. A state review of the park’s own records showed that the train had derailed 79 times in the 2 months prior to the accident, and as many as nine times in a single day.


Attachments:
oldindiana8large.jpg
oldindiana8large.jpg [ 417.07 KiB | Viewed 932 times ]

_________________
Rick Rowlands
J&L Narrow Gauge Railroad
"The shortest and narrowest Railroad in Ohio"
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Regulations
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:30 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 983
Yup. That’s why I’m for inspections and regulations.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Regulations
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:48 pm
Posts: 136
I was in the amusement industry for thirty years full time, and about eight years part time. I was attending a safety seminar the year after this accident. The entire staff responsible for the inspection dept in Indiana was there, trying to get their NAARSO certifications, which none of them had. https://naarso.com/ Yeah it was scary finding out how little these people knew.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Regulations
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:13 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1429
Jennie K wrote:
One of the reasons that Indiana has the draconian regulations is that it one time had next to none. This tragic incident at a now defunct park was resulted in the current attitude in that state concerning anything that remotely resembles an amusement ride
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Indiana_Fun_Park

Something similar happened on a backyard 2' gauge operation, Northfield & Cannon Valley Railroad, in 2007, killing a volunteer. The caboose involved was poorly designed and top-heavy apparently. The operation was completely unregulated.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24123


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Regulations
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:04 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1457
Location: Back in NE Ohio
The Indiana accident ride sounds like the Gettysburg of amusement ride operations.

I've mentioned it before, the Chesapeake and Allegheny Live Steamers in Leakin Park in Baltimore came under the authority of state amusement inspectors around 25 years ago, after having kept them at bay while our patron, former Baltimore Mayor and Maryland Governor William Donald Schaefer was in office. They were consistently told our monthly public rides were a "demonstration", not an amusement, but some time after Schaefer was gone they came and declared their jurisdiction over us, and that was that. About 10 years previous, Maryland was one of the first states to write a code for miniature boilers, and in their wisdom, the founders of CALS managed to get a seat at the table when the rules were written, so we could live with them. That is probably the best course for any group trying to navigate bureaucratic regulation issues - to become part of the process, instead of a victim of it. It might be too late for some groups, I don't know. it's the nature of bureaucracies to want to regulate anything that even faintly resembles their domain, and fighting this kind of "city hall" might be worse than tilting at windmills.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Regulations
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:44 pm
Posts: 14
We also had a derailment on our miniature zoo railroad here in St Louis a few years back and I believe it killed the engineer. Same thing, too much speed heading into a curve.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/multimedi ... 9fa8b.html


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Regulations
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:33 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am
Posts: 110
So once again we learn that evil government regulations are written with blood ink.

I in theory, can sympathize with the Libertarian & Ronald Reagan Philosophy that the Government is not here to help, but in practical reality I've had it beaten into my head that Corporations and Individuals do not act like the Utopian Characters that are Required for such a philosophy to be practical. My Estate is supposed to be able to sue a corporation that caused my death and that makes things honky dory?

In fact, with my small participation in committees tasked with updating regulations, my experience is that the government employees are trying to do the right thing. They did indeed welcome the experience and point of view of folks in the trenches.

So, as already expressed by a person here actively involved in the process, Please Reach Out To Help the Writing Of Regulations That May Affect Your Interests.

Brian


Online
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Regulations
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:11 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1457
Location: Back in NE Ohio
If your state is thinking about adopting regulations for miniature boilers, if you can find someone involved in state government, try and get them to look at the Maryland regulations. They have been in force for nearly 30 years now, and as far as I know there have been no significant mishaps with any locomotive that meets those standards, and they are standards that a qualified hobby builder can meet.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Regulations
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:08 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1547
Location: Youngstown, OH
I do not mind regulations as long as they are smartly developed, properly enforced and do not pose an undue burden. What I think many people are fearful of are amusement inspectors treating a train like a roller coaster and requiring full body harnesses, fully fenced in ROWs and other ridiculous requirements that are needed for true amusement rides but not for a railroad. Those fears come out of uncertainty caused by a lack of any real standards. The proposed ASTM standards should help alleviate those concerns.

_________________
Rick Rowlands
J&L Narrow Gauge Railroad
"The shortest and narrowest Railroad in Ohio"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Regulations
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:59 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 983
Rick Rowlands wrote:
What I think many people are fearful of are amusement inspectors treating a train like a roller coaster and requiring full body harnesses, fully fenced in ROWs and other ridiculous requirements that are needed for true amusement rides but not for a railroad. Those fears come out of uncertainty caused by a lack of any real standards. The proposed ASTM standards should help alleviate those concerns.


Have you ever been to an amusement park? They operate wonderful railroads at amusement parks and don’t have any “ridiculous requirements.” You’re worrying about something that doesn’t actually happen.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Regulations
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5987
Location: southeastern USA
I once had an inspector who knew nothing about railroads but inspected roller coasters, elevators and industrial assembly lines drop in to check up on a boiler repair. Yes, it does happen.

_________________
Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."
Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Regulations
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:49 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 983
Dave wrote:
I once had an inspector who knew nothing about railroads but inspected roller coasters, elevators and industrial assembly lines drop in to check up on a boiler repair. Yes, it does happen.


And? Did he insist that you install a body harness on your locomotive or other unreasonable requests?


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: choodude, elecuyer, Google [Bot], Shogo Takizawa, tomgears, wilkinsd and 83 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: