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 Post subject: GEs Being Cut Up at New Hope & Ivyland?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9898
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
I have received a couple direct communications regarding a couple "third generation" GE diesels apparently being cut up at the New Hope & Ivyland: Visual confirmation on C30-7 7087 (originally L&N) and long-stored CSX B36-7 5843 (originally Seaboard, built 1985); speculation says CSX 5834 also got the axe, with C39-8 8211 (Pennsylvania Northeastern) and maybe one other C39-8 "next in line". All were reported as "dead" and "too far gone even for parts," so hardly any great loss--but are there any preservationists even looking for Dash Seven or Dash Eight parts?


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 Post subject: Re: GEs Being Cut Up at New Hope & Ivyland?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:25 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1372
There are quite a few 1980s GEs at the Silvis NRE facility waiting to be cut up, including around a dozen four-axle former LMX (the scheme BN came up with to lease them) units that would be in demand if they were EMDs. I guess the issue is that GE won't license aftermarket parts suppliers and charges exponentially more to supply parts like power assemblies, turbochargers, traction motor rebuilds, etc., all parts liable to go out on a 30+ year old unit. For example, it was always a puzzle why the Rock Island let its 1974 U30Cs sit without repairing them, and then after shutdown none of them sold, and they were scrapped. A former foreman at Silvis recounted (on one of the facebook RI boards) how the trustee had set a limit on per unit repair costs, and the GEs always came in over that limit even for minor repairs. So the Rock Island, needing power, ran them into the ground, not tightening main bearings as required, etc., and so most of them would have required all new engines to be made operable.


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 Post subject: Re: GEs Being Cut Up at New Hope & Ivyland?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 157
15 years ago there was a discussion here about the merit of preserving the C32-8 - many of which apply to preserving a C39-8. http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19965

Those units have since been scrapped and exported. The C39-8s were the next model, and these units - Pennsylvania Northeastern 8202 - originally CR 6004, Pennsylvania Northeastern 8211 - originally CR 6017. I think these are the last C39-8s remaining - I'd be happy to be corrected on this point.

These units are too big to economically operate for all but a handful of museums and tourist railroads - not to mention the particular characteristics associated with these units mentioned in the earlier thread. However, their place as an early implementation of microprocessor control is has grown in importance as computer control of locomotive functions has increased in sophistication. Not to mention the Positive Train Control mandate, the widespread use of trip optimization software, and R&D work on Direct Train Control. The programming in these early dash-8s is primitive by comparison, but having the locomotive is a powerful way to show the application Moore's law on railroads.

If the owners haven't signed a scrap contract yet, would they be willing to post an ad on the RYPN classifieds page? This would 1) give contact information so principals can talk with principals and 2) communicate that these locomotives are "available" and that this isn't a hypothetical discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: GEs Being Cut Up at New Hope & Ivyland?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:21 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
Posts: 461
Location: Ipswich, UK
Surprised to see that #7087 has been cut as that appeared to be in good order and freshly painted when I photographed it in Sept 2014....
Attachment:
NHI.jpg
NHI.jpg [ 221.49 KiB | Viewed 4450 times ]

I know a lot can happen in 6.5 years, and paintwork quality isn't the full story, but still rather unexpected.

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 Post subject: Re: GEs Being Cut Up at New Hope & Ivyland?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:38 am
Posts: 970
Location: Philadelphia
Per Ahead of the Torch's FB group, these units are getting cut:

7087 ex SBD 7087, sidelined in 2017 after mechanical issues (long hood and components missing in a posted photo)
Two CSX units, vandalized, (B36-7 5834 is one and was cut down to the frame in a posted photo)

Another poster says 8211 are 8212 "toast" (8212 still running tho?)

Joshua


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 Post subject: Re: GEs Being Cut Up at New Hope & Ivyland?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:51 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1424
Location: Back in NE Ohio
GE sounds a lot like what I've been reading about CAT when it comes to having a stranglehold on replacement parts supplies. I was looking around at bus and truck videos and reading comments on how undesirable many find having a CAT engine in their rig these days, and that Cummins and Detroit Diesel are now more desirable because of cost of repairs and parts. Perhaps that is a minority view, I really don't know?


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 Post subject: Re: GEs Being Cut Up at New Hope & Ivyland?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:03 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:31 pm
Posts: 34
U series and newer GE locomotives have always been only used on very few shortlines. Class one's who picked some up never used them for long before rebuild or scrap. A lot of times even though GE's were cheaper people chose even older EMD's. Look at how many SD-40 and SD-40-2's bounced around class 1 railroads. Hundreds still working today. When the Dash-7 line came out EMD was eating their lunch. New EMD's were always somewhat more expensive. But when it was -7 against -2 GE had to do something. They chose through their GE Credit subsidiary to make very attractive 15 year leases on locomotives priced slightly less than EMD. Bean counters loved them. The down side was parts that sometimes where many times the price for comparable EMD parts. EMD locomotives have long enjoyed a substantial aftermarket parts base leading to a lot of competition. I know some railroads who bought GE's for half the price of a comparable EMD. Those that did bought one or two just for parts. I've seen GE locomotives with EMD voltage regulators. The GE part was like three grand and the refurbished EMD one was $350 outright no core charge.


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 Post subject: Re: GEs Being Cut Up at New Hope & Ivyland?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:02 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1424
Location: Back in NE Ohio
Like, one can sometimes find a bargain on an old Rolls Royce, but the maintenance and upkeep costs eat you alive. Except an old Dash 7 ain't no Silver Ghost.


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 Post subject: Re: GEs Being Cut Up at New Hope & Ivyland?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 682
Location: B'more Maryland
PaulWWoodring wrote:
Like, one can sometimes find a bargain on an old Rolls Royce, but the maintenance and upkeep costs eat you alive. Except an old Dash 7 ain't no Silver Ghost.


Oh man! Someone should tell Tyler Hoover about this.

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 Post subject: Re: GEs Being Cut Up at New Hope & Ivyland?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:08 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1424
Location: Back in NE Ohio
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
PaulWWoodring wrote:
Like, one can sometimes find a bargain on an old Rolls Royce, but the maintenance and upkeep costs eat you alive. Except an old Dash 7 ain't no Silver Ghost.


Oh man! Someone should tell Tyler Hoover about this.


I was specifically thinking about him and his "bargain" bad buys when I wrote that.


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 Post subject: Re: GEs Being Cut Up at New Hope & Ivyland?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:31 pm
Posts: 34
Had a friend tell me, I've bought some locomotives! Sent me pictures, they were SD-50's. The locomotive that almost put EMD out of business. He told me look at the great paint. And they were so inexpensive! They were cheap for a reason. Nobody wanted them.


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 Post subject: Re: GEs Being Cut Up at New Hope & Ivyland?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:06 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1506
For those in the dark, or behind the social-media curve:

https://www.motorious.com/articles/news/tyler-hoover-car-collection-tour/

Does have to be said, though, the Brazilians loved those GEs. And they don't seem to have had major despair keeping them running even when they flop them on their sides periodically...

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 Post subject: Re: GEs Being Cut Up at New Hope & Ivyland?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:00 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1372
Overmod wrote:
Does have to be said, though, the Brazilians loved those GEs. And they don't seem to have had major despair keeping them running even when they flop them on their sides periodically...

I have been surprised that a "grey market" new parts supply for GEs never developed, which would be a lot easier in a developing country, perhaps one has. I have heard of the US music industry trying to sue over pirated CDs and DVDs down there and getting nowhere.


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 Post subject: Re: GEs Being Cut Up at New Hope & Ivyland?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:17 am 

Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 11:28 pm
Posts: 19
To be fair, i'd assume there were copious spares from the various GE's RFFSA bought before privatiaztion.

Real shame these are getting cut, especially the C30 - it's unorthodox to shed a tear for a Dash-7, but once it was unorthodox to shed a tear for an 1800s 4-4-0!


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 Post subject: Re: GEs Being Cut Up at New Hope & Ivyland?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:26 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1372
Connie4800 wrote:

Real shame these are getting cut, especially the C30 - it's unorthodox to shed a tear for a Dash-7, but once it was unorthodox to shed a tear for an 1800s 4-4-0!

On the Santa Fe between the late seventies and mid-eighties C30-7s were on the point of most of their hottest piggyback trains (with the exception of the 991 and 891, which were UPS trains that used the newest four-axle EMDs). Especially the 981 (in the Santa Fe's unusual train numbering 9 was the Bay Area and 1 was Chicago, so one of the longest-distance through trains, all perishable trailers and usually long for a train in those days). So I saw a lot of them growing up along the Santa Fe main in Illinois. I was told they put them in the lead because they rode better, but I also understand the crews didn't particularly like them, especially the tall steep steps on the pilot which were like trying to climb freight car grab irons with your grip in your hand. The Santa Fe also grew tired of their high crankcase oil usage and started selling them around 1990. I don't know if any were saved.


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