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 Post subject: Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:08 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 627
Location: Pure Michigan
Alright, I am trying to officially record each of the 28 passenger cars that were made into hotel rooms at the Choo Choo Hotel.

Does anyone have any records of the identities of the cars and their placement within the complex? Each car carries a unique name plate and I am wondering if these can be corresponded to the original car numbers.

Photo Album for Reference:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiv ... 648&Page=1


NYC Cars (15):
I have been able to confirm the identity of all but two of the NYC cars.

456/4556 - "Silver Diner"
696/4546 - Diner
2606 - "Paul K. Brock"
2607 - "B. Allen Casey Jr."
2610 - "Emma Patton Casey"
2614 - "H. Clay Evans Johnson"
2616 - "Klaus Netwig"
2619 - "Cartter Frierson"
2635 - "Joseph W. Graves"
2645 - "William Parker" (Unconfirmed)
2646 - "Richard W. Cardin"
2652 - "Harlan A. Mills"
2664 - "Phil Whitaker"
2665 - "George A. Fillover, Jr." (Unconfirmed, might be "Volunteer Car?")
2667 - "Jack Jones"

SOU Cars (11):
I have only been able to confirm the identity of 2 SOU cars.

1367 - "Olan Mills, II"
1572/1031 - "Frank S. Worthington"
1587/1013
1589/1014
1592/1015
1612/1019
1625/1080
1631/1082
1637/1085
1652/1027
1654/1025

WAB Cars (1):
1510 - Diner

PRR Cars (1):
1100 - "American Draft"


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 Post subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:55 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 272
As info - another place for photos is the Railroad Preservation Index at: https://www.sites.google.com/site/railwaypreservationphotoindex/by-railroad

There are listings for cars at the hotel under the listings by railroad.

Thank you for putting this list together. Hopefully it will help museums to start planning for preservation of parts or entire cars.


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 Post subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:59 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1716
Thomas Cornillie wrote:
As info - another place for photos is the Railroad Preservation Index at: https://www.sites.google.com/site/railwaypreservationphotoindex/by-railroad

There are listings for cars at the hotel under the listings by railroad.

Thank you for putting this list together. Hopefully it will help museums to start planning for preservation of parts or entire cars.


Is the choo-choo getting rid of the cars?


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 Post subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 272
I know of nothing specific, but generally speaking passenger cars have a limited lifespan when converted to other commercial uses. The question is when, not if, the time will come to clear the property for sale or redevelopment.

Unfortunately, when scrapping does occur it is done at the speed of business can museums with their limited short-term fundraising capabilities are unable to constructively respond to the opportunity.

Planning for the inevitability is a good idea vs. making a desperate call for help after demolition has started.

I last saw the hotel 10 years ago, and I was shocked at how little it had changed from the last time I saw it (in 1990). I'm surprised that it has changed so little in the past 10 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:14 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1716
Thomas Cornillie wrote:
I know of nothing specific, but generally speaking passenger cars have a limited lifespan when converted to other commercial uses. The question is when, not if, the time will come to clear the property for sale or redevelopment.

Unfortunately, when scrapping does occur it is done at the speed of business can museums with their limited short-term fundraising capabilities are unable to constructively respond to the opportunity.

Planning for the inevitability is a good idea vs. making a desperate call for help after demolition has started.

I last saw the hotel 10 years ago, and I was shocked at how little it had changed from the last time I saw it (in 1990). I'm surprised that it has changed so little in the past 10 years.


There has been lots of development there recently. Some good - they have spruced up the place and made it more inviting. But in the bad news -

- The Signal Tower was torn down. Supposedly TVRM was trying to get it, which would have been incredible. Not sure if this was TVRM dragging their feet, the Choo Choo in a hurry, or some sad combination of the 2.

- the former New Orleans streetcar that operated at the Choo Choo has been converted into a bar. :( - supposedly New Orleans was interested in purchasing the car.

- the former model railroad display was converted into a guitar museum.

- the former “Station House” Restaurant was converted into a comedy club.


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 Post subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:55 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:08 pm
Posts: 408
Location: Amherst, OH
We're visiting Chattanooga next month and staying at the Choo Choo but they were not booking stays in the passenger cars.


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 Post subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:03 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1716
Emmo213 wrote:
We're visiting Chattanooga next month and staying at the Choo Choo but they were not booking stays in the passenger cars.


Ah so perhaps the days are numbered!


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 Post subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:24 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 627
Location: Pure Michigan
Thomas Cornillie wrote:
As info - another place for photos is the Railroad Preservation Index at: https://www.sites.google.com/site/railwaypreservationphotoindex/by-railroad

There are listings for cars at the hotel under the listings by railroad.

Thank you for putting this list together. Hopefully it will help museums to start planning for preservation of parts or entire cars.


That is where I got most of my information from. I cannot thank Mr. Hata enough for putting that site together.

Thomas Cornillie wrote:
I know of nothing specific, but generally speaking passenger cars have a limited lifespan when converted to other commercial uses. The question is when, not if, the time will come to clear the property for sale or redevelopment.

Unfortunately, when scrapping does occur it is done at the speed of business can museums with their limited short-term fundraising capabilities are unable to constructively respond to the opportunity.

Planning for the inevitability is a good idea vs. making a desperate call for help after demolition has started.

I last saw the hotel 10 years ago, and I was shocked at how little it had changed from the last time I saw it (in 1990). I'm surprised that it has changed so little in the past 10 years.


Yes, if you look at my album the cars look dreadful. I can totally see the new developers just simply getting rid of most of the cars.

One positive: It was amazing to see how many people were constantly gathered around the N&W caboose and the ex-G&W 2-6-0, so I think those are safe.


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 Post subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:51 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 627
Location: Pure Michigan
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
Emmo213 wrote:
We're visiting Chattanooga next month and staying at the Choo Choo but they were not booking stays in the passenger cars.


Ah so perhaps the days are numbered!


They've been "under renovation" for close to five years now...I visited in March 2021 and there were no signs of any work being done. The hotel honestly does not look very nice...


Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
- the former New Orleans streetcar that operated at the Choo Choo has been converted into a bar. :( - supposedly New Orleans was interested in purchasing the car.


Yep, it is next to the pool at Bluebird Row. The general public cannot even get close to it (I took this photo from behind a security gate). Very sad.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 526
The exact history of these cars has been out there for years. No need to re-invent the wheel. Get a copy of "Private Passenger Car Annual, Vol 1 - 1980" by Dave Briggs ("The Yellow Book"). See page 133. It has a detailed listing of each car.


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 Post subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1716
NS 3322 wrote:
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
Emmo213 wrote:
We're visiting Chattanooga next month and staying at the Choo Choo but they were not booking stays in the passenger cars.


Ah so perhaps the days are numbered!


They've been "under renovation" for close to five years now...I visited in March 2021 and there were no signs of any work being done. The hotel honestly does not look very nice...


Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
- the former New Orleans streetcar that operated at the Choo Choo has been converted into a bar. :( - supposedly New Orleans was interested in purchasing the car.


Yep, it is next to the pool at Bluebird Row. The general public cannot even get close to it (I took this photo from behind a security gate). Very sad.
Image


Oh that’s even worse than I thought- I thought it was still in the same location it used to give rides from... just converted to a bar. Such a shame.


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 Post subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:25 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 627
Location: Pure Michigan
Topfuel wrote:
The exact history of these cars has been out there for years. No need to re-invent the wheel. Get a copy of "Private Passenger Car Annual, Vol 1 - 1980" by Dave Briggs ("The Yellow Book"). See page 133. It has a detailed listing of each car.


Would you be willing to share the information from that page? That Annual is rather difficult to find (only one copy listed on eBay with no photos).


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 Post subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:10 pm 
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Posts: 58
Location: Denver, CO
PPCA Vol. 1 lists the cars as (added info is italicized):

NYC
-2 "Volunteer": ex-PC 4556, nee-NYC 456, Budd 1948 (Currently named "The Silver Diner")
-3 "Lillie & McCall, Inc.": ex-PC 4546, nee-NYC 696, Budd 1947 (Currently only numbered 4546)
-2 "Paul K. Brock": ex-PC 2606, nee-NYC 2606, P-S 1941
-5 "B. Allen Casey": ex-PC 1601, ex-NYC, nee-NYC 2607, P-S 1941
-4 "Emma Patton Casey": ex-PC 2610, nee-NYC 2610, P-S 1941
-6 "H. Clay Evans Johnson": ex-PC 1603, ex-NYC, nee-NYC 2614, P-S 1941
-2 "Klaus Hartwig": ex-PC 2616, nee-NYC 2616, P-S 1941
-3 "Carter Frierson": ex-PC 1604, ex-NYC, nee-NYC 2619, P-S 1941 (It mentions this and 2667 may be transposed)
-6 "Joseph W. Graves": ex-PC 2635, nee-NYC 2635, P-S 1941
-2 "William Parker": ex-PC 2645, nee-NYC 2645, AC&F 1941
-8 "Richard W. Cardin": ex-PC 1612, ex-NYC 1612, nee-NYC 2646, AC&F 1941
-5 "Harlan A. Mills": ex-PC 2652, nee-NYC 2652, AC&F 1941
-5 "Phil Whitaker": ex-PC 2664, nee-NYC 2664, AC&F 1941
-3 "George Fillauer, Jr.": ex-PC 1600, ex-NYC, nee-2665, AC&F 1941 (Spelled "George A. Fillover, Jr."?)
-7 "Jack Jones": ex-PC 1615, ex-NYC, nee-NYC 2667, AC&F 1941 (It mentions this and 2619 may be transposed)

PRR
-3 "American": ex-PC/PRR North Jersey Coast Commuter Club, ex-PRR P70 Coach (This is, I assume, 1100)

SOU
-8 "W. E. Landis": ex-Southern 1013 (nee-1587, Pullman 1923)
-8 "Guy Beatty": ex-Southern 1014 (nee-1589, Pullman 1923)
-3 "H. M. Poss": ex-Southern 1015 (nee-1592, Pullman 1923)
-7 "Dan Williams, Jr.": ex-Southern 1019 (nee-1612, Pullman 1923)
-7 "Larry Roberts": ex-Southern 1025 (nee-1654, Pullman 1924)
-6 "Ted Casey": ex-Southern 1027 (nee-1652, Pullman 1924)
-5 "Frank Worthington": ex-Southern 1031 (nee-1572, Pullman 1917)
-3 "Paul Frierson": ex-Southern 1080 (nee-1625, Pullman 1923)
-2 "George McGee III": ex-Southern 1082 (nee-1631, Pullman 1924)
-8 "Carter Patton III": ex-Southern 1085 (nee-1637, Pullman 1924)
-3 "Olan Mills II": nee-Southern 1367

WAB
-2 "Hamilton": Cannonball Club Car, nee-Wabash 1510, Pullman 1927 (No longer named it appears)


Two cars are mentioned at are no longer on the property.
-1 "Linoma": ex-Amtrak 9384, ex-AutoLiner 200, ex-D&RGW 1250, nee-C&O 1877, Budd 1948 (This car is currently at the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum)
-1 "Savannah": ex-Central of Georgia Business Car (Which car this is, is not mentioned)


Additionally, there were reportedly three other cars sold to the hotel, all three of which I am uncertain if they were ever on the property. These are:
-NYC 2628, P-S 1941
-NYC 2633, P-S 1941
-NYC 2666, AC&F 1941


The single digit numbers used are what I assume to be the track on which the cars are located in the station complex.

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Wil Hata

Railroad Preservation Index 2015-2021


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 Post subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:37 pm 
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Posts: 2686
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Emmo213 wrote:
We're visiting Chattanooga next month and staying at the Choo Choo but they were not booking stays in the passenger cars.
I went there to ride the Summerville run at TVRM behind 4501 in 2016, so I decided to get a room at the hotel there as I'd seen it as a kid but we couldn't afford to stay there then. They put me in a conventional hotel room in the block building just past the end of the depot tracks. I walked around the grounds a lot that evening looking around and noticed it didn't seem like many (or even any) of the railroad car rooms were being used. I was quite disappointed by that.
Image
Image
I was also disappointed that the model railroad was gone, but things change. Had I known that the tower was going to be razed, I'd have taken photos of it. I walked around the grounds and found at least one track that seemed to go out to the regular NS tracks there, I assume where they'd ran that trolley back in the day.
It's be interesting to see photos of them getting those coaches into the old depot tracks for the hotel. As I was walking around, I encountered an older fellow who said he'd lived there when he was a kid, and said it broke his heart to see the old depot as it was now, because of course his memories were of a very busy station with steam-powered passenger trains always there at any time of day.

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 Post subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:25 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1716
TVRM used the connection to NS for Excursions and special events until pretty recently.


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