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 Post subject: Silver Dollar City train derailment...!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:43 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:16 pm
Posts: 189
The tourist train at Silver Dollar City, Mo. had quite a derailment!!!! Looks like it did what we call "stringlined". I thought of inserting the word "spectacular" into the headline.... for it was!

https://www.koamnewsnow.com/silver-doll ... aVXV6VmqNg


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 Post subject: Re: Silver Dollar City train derailment...!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:13 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
I would be interested in learning what the proximate cause of the derailment was. Appears to be a stringline, perhaps caused by a derailed wheel towards the rear of the train. There is a skewed tie in one of the videos, could that be where a derailed wheel dropped between the ties and created enough resistance to flip the rest of the cars over?

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 Post subject: Re: Silver Dollar City train derailment...!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:57 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:06 am
Posts: 526
Location: NE PA
Video of derailed train. Truck that is off the end of the ties is probable cause of over turning the cars. I doubt that little engine has enough tractive effort to affect a true stringline. Coaches seem awfully broad for the gauge of track in my opinion.
https://www.facebook.com/gary.eldridge.33865/videos/1469541250223467


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 Post subject: Re: Silver Dollar City train derailment...!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:28 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1534
Location: New Franklin, OH
Wouldn’t take all that much to string-line. High center of gravity and momentum. My theory - lead truck of the next to last car dropped off and caught the end of the tie on the low side. That jolt and resulting string line force could start things tipping while momentum carried the cars almost another car length. Note that the curve is sharp enough that there’s a guard rail. Here-say on the street is wide gauge. All speculation at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: Silver Dollar City train derailment...!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:21 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:16 pm
Posts: 189
What little bit you can see of ties... no marks on the ties, so it doesn't look like something was off on the ground dragging along...and, as good as everything looks, hard to imagine "wide gauge" being a possibility. The tread on those wheels is wwwiiiidddeee!


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 Post subject: Re: Silver Dollar City train derailment...!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:33 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2345
Location: Strasburg, PA
Too many fat passengers on one side of the car???


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 Post subject: Re: Silver Dollar City train derailment...!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1534
Location: New Franklin, OH
Bad Order wrote:
What little bit you can see of ties... no marks on the ties, so it doesn't look like something was off on the ground dragging along...and, as good as everything looks, hard to imagine "wide gauge" being a possibility. The tread on those wheels is wwwiiiidddeee!

At the beginning of the video, you can see where the end of a tie on the low side was caught and plowed forward resulting in the skewed tie noted by Rick. Those cars may not be heavy enough to leave marks on the ties that would be obvious in the video. A witness stated the car was bouncing just before it went over. I’ve seen a covered hopper being switched and dropping off the rail making little damage to the ties. You wouldn’t have known unless you were looking for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Silver Dollar City train derailment...!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 4:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:55 pm
Posts: 920
Location: Warren, PA
Slightly confused on why you would have guard rail on the partial inside rail of a curve.

The wheel treads are surprisingly shiny all the way through the flange edges as well as the full-width treads.

There was a derailment on RJC a few months back that made YouTube video where a side dump rock hopper at the front of the train managed to sequentially roll over, slowly, about 20 cars behind it, literally, a slow-motion train wreck. The twist forces transmitted through couplers when the gauge is that narrow makes this real speculation.

Just glad it sounds like injuries, could have been worse.

I remember being 15 on San Francisco Bay on a boat tour of Alcatraz when the two-deck excursion boat pulled up beside a big sailboat full of 'open top hoppers', blonde variety, sunning themselves, and so many people rushed over to that side of the boat that the boat severely listed and the captain had to yell at everybody to immediately return to their seat....


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 Post subject: Re: Silver Dollar City train derailment...!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:02 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2780
Location: Northern Illinois
Randy Gustafson wrote:
Slightly confused on why you would have guard rail on the partial inside rail of a curve.



Guard rails for guidance are normally on the inside of a curve... but this one obviously isn't for guidance, being almost 1/4 of the gauge from the running rail. This guard rail is to contain a derailed wheel, so the truck stays up on the track, rather than letting the car topple down the embankment. Whatever, it was on the wrong side to be of any use in this situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Silver Dollar City train derailment...!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:06 am
Posts: 311
To my eye it looks like there are at least 3 skewed ties in that video..........mld


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 Post subject: Re: Silver Dollar City train derailment...!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
I think the guardrail caused the roll over. It appears that the brake cylinder on the first truck on the second car is up against the end of the guard rail. If the train had been derailed and rolling along the ties then that truck hits the guardrail and stops dead, it provides enough pull against the locomotive to start the first car rolling over, then the couplers could easily have flipped the other cars over as well.

I find it difficult to believe that you can get such a wide gauge situation on a two foot gauge track and have it go unnnoticed. I can see wide gauge on standard gauge track by looking at it, but to be 2" wide on such narrow track would stick out like a sore thumb. I heard something about a broken axle but geez how do you break an axle with such light loads.

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 Post subject: Re: Silver Dollar City train derailment...!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:14 am
Posts: 16
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Too many fat passengers on one side of the car???


The modern day incarnation of the death of the Mount Gretna Narrow Gauge!


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 Post subject: Re: Silver Dollar City train derailment...!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:03 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:45 pm
Posts: 286
Quote:
Slightly confused on why you would have guard rail on the partial inside rail of a curve.


You have the guard rail on the inside rail so that the back of the wheel tread can ride along it, reducing the outwards force from the wheels on the outer rail in a curve. Basically, it keeps more of the wheel on the inner rail and less force on the outer rail. This helps with maintaining track gauge, outer rail rollover, reduces tie wear, etc.

This is a pretty standard design in rail transit, and I've seen it on a number of common carrier railroads on very sharp curves.

For the design to work, there has to be a gauge standard for the arrangement with a minimum and maximum open flangeway width. On some of the transit lines where I teach track standards and maintenance, the subject can take hours to cover because of the minimum and maximum flangeway widths, fastener requirements, rail wear, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Silver Dollar City train derailment...!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:11 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:45 pm
Posts: 286
For those that don't know about the Silver Dollar rail operation, here is a short piece I put together when I arranged a behind the scenes tour in 2014.

SILVER DOLLAR CITY

Silver Dollar City, opened on May 1, 1960, and operated by Herschend Family Entertainment Corporation, is a theme park near Branson, Missouri, based upon an 1880s Ozark frontier town. It features modern rides as well as a blacksmith, craft stores, and buildings appropriate for the era, and is generally rated as having the best food of any major theme park in the country. The park first gained national attention when CBS-TV’s The Beverly Hillbillies filmed several shows in the park to start off the 1969-1970 season.
For the rail enthusiast, Silver Dollar City is the home of the Frisco Silver Dollar Line Steam Train, a 24-inch gauge, three-mile railroad. Reportedly, the Frisco name honors the railroad that supplied the ties and rail, and even some construction help, to make the train ride possible. A normal trip features a hold up, while during Christmas the robbery is replaced by Grandpa telling the Christmas story. The entire trip takes about 20 minutes.
The Frisco Silver Dollar Line was added in 1962, and originally served at least partly as a mode of transport from the old parking area to the park. Initially, there was some difficulty in getting the train working properly at the park due to the grade of the uphill slope. Reportedly, the train kept sliding back down the last hill, wheels churning furiously, setting fire to the surrounding trees. When the entire loop was built, the grades were still a challenge. The park solved the problem in what has been described as “a classic frontier-theme-park style” by building up extra steam while the passengers are entertained by a comedy train robbery.
The first locomotive on the line was a 1922 Davenport 0-4-0T from the Wayne County Board of Roads Commission. This locomotive has a special history as it was once owned by Henry Ford. According to the Greenfield Museum at Dearborn, Michigan, Ford had used it to entertain his grandchildren and to teach them steam locomotive operations. In 1962 it was converted into a 4-4-2 and a tender was added along with a diamond stack and other “wild west” fixtures. Numbered 76, the Davenport operated on the Frisco line until it was retired in the 1980s. This locomotive was purchased for Silver Dollar City from the defunct “Adventure Town” of Alexandria Bay, New York, at a cost of $15,000.
Several German-built steamers also exist and operate at the park. They come from manufacturers such as Orenstein & Koppell and Kolben Danek, all originally built to 60 centimeter gauge (close enough to operate on two-foot gauge track). Two 1934 Orenstein & Koppell-built 0-4-0Ts were purchased from Peter Buescher & Sohn of Mueater, Germany, in 1965. One of these, No. 43, has been restored to service as a 2-4-0T and is in use today. A larger 1938 Orenstein & Koppell 2-4-0T, former Kies unit Schotterwerke Nordmark No. 13, is also in use and retains its large European-style cab. The newest engine on the roster is a 1940 2-4-0T built by Kolben Danek for Hans Vatter, AG., which carries the number 76. All of the locomotives have been “westernized” and painted red and carry the Frisco herald. While there can be as many as three steam locomotives fired up at any one time, there are only two sets of passenger cars. The cars feature forward facing bench seats with open sides and covered tops.
There is actually some interesting controversy about the Silver Dollar City railroad. Different records show that the locomotive fleet of the theme park was once actually much larger than what is there today. For example, there are records of other O&K, Henschel and CKD locomotives coming to the park in the 1960s and 1980s. Some of these records show the steamers being passed on to other operations such as the LaPorte County Historical Steam Society/Hesston Steam Museum. However, the Hesston Steam Museum website states that “Dr. George Mohun, of Novato California contacted us, offering 4 locomotives and 8 flat cars, the remains of the Mecklenburg Pommersche Schmall Spurbahn Railroad in East Germany, intended for a steam tourist railway near San Francisco. This railroad was never constructed, and the equipment was stored on his ranch for 17 years. After an inspection trip, funds were borrowed and the equipment was purchased. The equipment arrived on April 14, 1987. The brand-new, yet 47 years old, CSK (CKD) was immediately placed in the shop for cleaning and inspection. It was fired up for the first time ever in August 1987, and now serves as our regular locomotive for weekend operation.”
In conversations with the staff at Silver Dollar City, a number of people have heard rumors about the extra steam locomotives, but no one has direct knowledge about them. Many of the internet listings show several steamers arriving at Silver Dollar City in 1987, and then Hesston in 1989. However, this conflicts with the 1987 operational date that Hesston shows for the locomotives.
One final steam locomotive that has a questionable history with Silver Dollar City is Henschel 15918, built in 1918. This locomotive, built new for Heeresfeldbahnen as HF 2064 (German Army), was reportedly sold to Silver Dollar City in 1968.
Besides the Silver Dollar City theme park in Branson, Herschend Family Entertainment Corporation also operates Dollywood in east Tennessee. This park also has a steam railroad, a three-foot gauge operation using former White Pass & Yukon equipment.



STEAM LOCOMOTIVE ROSTER OF SILVER DOLLAR CITY

NO. F.M. WHYTE BUILDER SERIAL NUMBER BUILD DATE ORIGINAL OWNER NOTES
7 2-4-0T Orenstein & Koppel (O&K) - Germany #12480 1934 Peter Buescher & Sohn #7, Muenster, Germany Built as 0-4-0T, acquired 1965, on display as wrecked locomotive
13 2-4-0T Orenstein & Koppel (O&K) - Germany #13168 1938 Kies und Schotterwerke Nordmark #13, Lurschau, Germany In service
43 2-4-0T Orenstein & Koppel (O&K) - Germany #12503 1934 Peter Buescher & Sohn #43, Muenster, Germany Built as 0-4-0T, acquired 1965, in service
76 4-4-2 Davenport #1900 01/1922 Wayne County Board of Roads Commission #9, Detroit, MI. To Henry Ford. Acquired from Adventure Town in Alexandra Bay, NY in 1961 as SDC’s first locomotive. Retired from operation in 1980s.
76 2-4-0T Ceskomoravska Kolben Danek (CKD) - Czechoslovakia #1880 1940 Hans Vatter In service
0-4-0ST


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 Post subject: Re: Silver Dollar City train derailment...!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
Of those 8 flatcars from the MPSB that went to Hesston, we are using the trucks from two of them under 58's tender and our passenger car. There is one more set of trucks earmarked for a caboose that is yet to be built.

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