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 Post subject: Re: Surviving DL&W
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:08 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:20 am
Posts: 18
Location: Orderville, UT
The Heber Valley Railroad has several of the cars. Two came from the Great Smokey Mountains Rwy in 1992 or so (no. 324, which has recently been renovated and repainted) and one other). Three more (affectionately known as the "pumpkin cars") came from the Knox and Kane in 2005 (nos. 2568, 2571, 2593). 4 of the 5 are in regular service.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving DL&W
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:00 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 258
One of Illinois Railway Museum's "Boontons" (556) is out of service getting an interior repaint; look for it to return to the rails some time in 2015.

The other two Boontons at IRM (561, 567) are a part of the regular operating fleet; and can normally be found on the coach train.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving DL&W
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:19 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:19 am
Posts: 680
Location: Scottsboro, AL
gw75 wrote:
The Heber Valley Railroad has several of the cars. Two came from the Great Smokey Mountains Rwy in 1992 or so (no. 324, which has recently been renovated and repainted) and one other). Three more (affectionately known as the "pumpkin cars") came from the Knox and Kane in 2005 (nos. 2568, 2571, 2593). 4 of the 5 are in regular service.


The Heber cars referred to above are ex-DL&W MU cars and not the earlier open platform cars generally known as "Boonton" cars. I believe the cars from Great Smokey Mountain were built as low-roof enclosed vestibule trailers. The Knox & Kane coaches were former MU motor cars.

Alan Maples


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving DL&W
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:32 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:20 am
Posts: 18
Location: Orderville, UT
Quote:
The Heber cars referred to above are ex-DL&W MU cars and not the earlier open platform cars generally known as "Boonton" cars. I believe the cars from Great Smokey Mountain were built as low-roof enclosed vestibule trailers. The Knox & Kane coaches were former MU motor cars.


Thanks for the clarification. I thought they were the same based on some photos I saw online.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving DL&W
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:47 pm
Posts: 486
gw75 wrote:
Quote:
The Heber cars referred to above are ex-DL&W MU cars and not the earlier open platform cars generally known as "Boonton" cars. I believe the cars from Great Smokey Mountain were built as low-roof enclosed vestibule trailers. The Knox & Kane coaches were former MU motor cars.


Thanks for the clarification. I thought they were the same based on some photos I saw online.


You're not alone. I can't tell the difference between them, other than the closed vestibules.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving DL&W
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:38 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:45 pm
Posts: 138
Wikipedia is a useful source for information on the DL&W MU cars.

The "high roof" mu cars were rebuilt from older cars, I believe the only difference between these cars and the Boonton cars are the vestibules. I do not know if these cars were built with vestibules or if they were added with the MU conversion.

The "low roof" cars were built for MU service. These are the former motor cars and trailers at the Knox & Kane and Heber Valley Railroad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erie_Lacka ... f_trailers


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 Post subject: Seeking Original Lackawanna Numbers of BR&W's DL&W Boontons
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:37 pm
Posts: 269
Can anybody share what DL&W car numbers are represented in Black River & Western's ex-Lackawanna "Boonton" steel pasenger car fleet? Acquired in 1972, the coaches were sandblasted and repainted many moons ago and the DL&W numbers disappeared. I tried contacting the GM years ago and they did not have the paperwork handy to verify car numbers.

The BR&W's own car numbers for the "Boontons" are 301, 303, 304, & 305.

~K.R. Bell


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Original Lackawanna Numbers of BR&W's DL&W Boont
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:13 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:19 am
Posts: 680
Location: Scottsboro, AL
K.R. Bell wrote:
Can anybody share what DL&W car numbers are represented in Black River & Western's ex-Lackawanna "Boonton" steel pasenger car fleet?
The BR&W's own car numbers for the "Boontons" are 301, 303, 304, & 305.

~K.R. Bell


Kurt - Randolph Kean's "Railfan's Guide to Museum & Park Displays" lists the 301 as ex-DL&W 610. The other cars are not shown.

Alan Maples


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Original Lackawanna Numbers of BR&W's DL&W Boont
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:54 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:43 pm
Posts: 3
K.R. Bell wrote:
Can anybody share what DL&W car numbers are represented in Black River & Western's ex-Lackawanna "Boonton" steel pasenger car fleet? Acquired in 1972, the coaches were sandblasted and repainted many moons ago and the DL&W numbers disappeared. I tried contacting the GM years ago and they did not have the paperwork handy to verify car numbers.

The BR&W's own car numbers for the "Boontons" are 301, 303, 304, & 305.

~K.R. Bell


The Black River Railroad Historical Trust is starting the restoration on BRW #305. This was originally DL&W 605. We will have more information on our website in the coming weeks. www.blackriverrailroad.com

#301 (DL&W 610) was scrapped about 10 years ago
#302 is DL&W 585
#304 is DL&W 606

I think #303 was originally DL&W 608. I will try to confirm this.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving DL&W
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:58 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:37 pm
Posts: 269
Dan, these original DL&W Boonton car numbers matching that which is in the BR&W coach fleet have alluded me for years so I thank you very much for sharing this information. Perchance, what was the source of your information? Years ago I tried tracking down these car numbers from various BR&W folks, including the company president, to no avail. Thanks again!


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving DL&W
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:07 am
Posts: 736
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Its possible that if the interiors were not sand blasted, as the exteriors were, the numbers would still have been inside, over the doors, under the layers of paint....

I'm happy to see BR&W trust restoring a Boonton. I always loved when they ran the Boontons with their ex C&P Geep #752. Don't know why, but it was always a handsome consist....to me anyways.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving DL&W
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:50 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:43 pm
Posts: 3
A gentleman in our organization has been doing research on all BRW equipment and he has said he identified 585, 605 and 606 as BRW 302, 305, 304, respectively.

With age, the cars are spilling their secrets
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Also, cars 302 - 305 arrived around '72 or '73. Working backwards from the Jan 13, 1972 letter to the mid-continental railway society, all cars in the letter are accounted for in this thread except 585, 605, 606, 608 and 645.

I also have a grainy photo of one of the cars when it arrived that appears to be numbered 608.

Next time I am in ringoes I will try to confirm the numbers for myself on the other 3 cars.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving DL&W
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 6:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:43 pm
Posts: 3
Couldn't get a good picture - but I can make out "608" under the interior paint on BRW 303.

Here is the confirmation on the other two cars.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving DL&W
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:11 am
Posts: 60
Location: Cattaraugus, NY
Here is the Corrected Arcade & Attica Roster.

It appears that the A&A 310 should actually be DL&W 646. Various sources show DL&W 616 off the rosters by 1953. The A&A acquired that coach in 1963. The original Ed Lewis A&A had the car listed at 616. Corporate Minutes show the purchase as car 646 in January of 1964. This lines up much better with sale dates of the DL&W cars.

Here are my notes on these particular cars.

305 Combine Pullman 1915 Delaware, Lack & Wstrn #414 1962 In use (Bar)
306 Combine Pullman 1917 Delaware, Lack & Wstrn #424 1962 In use
307 Coach Pullman 1915 Delaware, Lack & Wstrn #611 1962 In use
308 Coach Pullman 1914 Delaware, Lack & Wstrn #574 1962 scrap ‘97
309 Combine Pullman 1917 Delaware, Lack & Wstrn #417 1964 In use
310 Coach Pullman 1915 Delaware, Lack & Wstrn #646 1964 scrap ‘85
311 Coach Pullman 1914 Delaware, Lack & Wstrn #552 1972 In use
312 Coach Pullman 1914 Delaware, Lack & Wstrn #600 1972 In use

Lackawanna Coaches (#305-312) - #308,310 scrapped
Coaches renumbered in mid 1990’s (ran w/o no’s for some time, then numbered incorrectly)
all returned to original A&A #s by Spring of 2006. {Coach #305 wore 307 from photo of wheel change out at North Java from Brad Mapes Collection}

Minutes of 2/24/62 - state purchase of EL coaches #414 at $1100 and #424 at $1000 plus cost of cleaning, testing, stenciling air brake and repacking journals.
Minutes of 9/8/62 - state purchase of EL coaches #611 at $1000 and #574 at $1000 or less
Minutes of 11/24/62 - approved purchase of EL #574 for $1000 to become A&A #308
Minutes of 1/29/64 - EL accepted bid of $4000 for coaches #417 and #646.
{May have been misprint in Lewis Book states as 616, Corp Minutes state 646}
{646 was listed as converted to a 56 seat “stove car” in 1953, sold in 1963 – from the EL Diamond, V6 #2} Two photographed in Arcade Yard March 1964. RIC negatives
Minutes of 1/26/72 - GM brought to the board matter of one coach out of service with bad wheels. EL plans to sell 19 off soon. Carried to purchase at least one, possibly two cars up to a total of $2000
306 has “424” stamped in center luggage rack advertising brackets

306 stored out of service from around 2000 on, steps reinstalled in 08, seats removed
September 16, 2008 - new windows added to baggage area of 306, 309 for handicap access

Combines weigh 110,300, Coaches 108,500


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving DL&W
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:25 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1214
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Rules of thumb for telling DL&W motor cars and each type of trailer car.

All are about the same length (70 feet) and have clerestory (Dutchmen called them "double-deck") roofs.

Motor cars: Both trucks were powered and equalizers have a drop in the middle. Each end of the roof has a pad for a pantograph. Motor cars have flat underframes.

"High roof" trailer cars. These are rebuilt from "Boonton" cars built around 1917-1920. They were steel cars with open platforms but collision posts; I presume the "Boonton" nickname came after electrification after which they primarily ran on the Boonton Branch. Erie side people called them "Wyatt Earp" cars. The rebuild included enclosed vestibules. "High roof" trailer cars have fishbelly underframes. Non-MU Boonton cars are used by some museum and tourist lines, including Steamtown NHS.

"Low roof" trailer cars. These were rebuilt from steam coaches built in 1925 with enclosed vestibules. "Low roof" trailer cars have flat underframes.

Electrification was 3000V DC but NJT converted the line to 25kV AC 60Hz after 1984. The DL&W cars ran on DC, the newer NJT cars run on AC. Some NJT cars can automatically convert to 12kV 25Hz AC to run through onto Amtrak's ex-PRR track to Penn Station NY.

Phil Mulligan


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