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 Post subject: Ellesmere private car
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:29 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:40 pm
Posts: 387
Location: San Francisco, CA
Randy,
Is anything going on with the car?

Who did it belong to when it was still a private car?

Ted Miles, who likes passenger cars


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 Post subject: Re: Ellesmere private car
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:17 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:15 pm
Posts: 1471
Location: Henderson Nevada
A short version of the history as we currently understand it...

Our Ellsmere (there were at least three cars by that name) is the 3rd... It was built in December 1899, by Wagner (possibly the last car completed by Wagner before it was acquired by Pullman)

It was built for Dr Webb, the president of Wagner (and soon to be director of Pullman)

Webb's previous private cars, Ellsmere (1st, c 1885 by a different builder, before Wagner started their own production) and Ellsmere (2nd, 1888, by Wagner, to the same floor plan as the third car) were transferred to Pullman and sold by them to others.

Our car was retained by Webb until sold to the Texas & Pacific in 1919.

Randy

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Director, Nevada State Railroad Museum, Boulder City, Nevada, Retired
http://www.nevadasouthern.com/
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 Post subject: Re: Ellesmere private car
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 2045
Location: Southern California
Randy Hees wrote:
It was built for Dr Webb, the president of Wagner (and soon to be director of Pullman)
Dr. William Seward Webb was related by marriage to the Vanderbilt family. He married Eliza Osgood Vanderbilt, daughter of William Vanderbilt and granddaughter of Cornelius Vanderbilt.

Vanderbilt owned a controlling interest in the Wagner Palace Car Company. After the death of Webster Wagner, Dr. Webb a Vanderbilt son-in-law was made president.

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Brian Norden


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 Post subject: Re: Ellesmere private car
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:45 pm
Posts: 303
Webb was also a major stock holder and president of the Rutland Railroad for many years. From my materials used by the NRHS in the 2015 convention guide book, here are two pieces about Webb.

About 1900, William Seward Webb, son-in-law of William H. Vanderbilt, and Vanderbilt’s New York Central & Hudson River Railroad (NYC&HR) began buying Rutland stock. For the NYC&HR, the Rutland Railroad was looked upon as an extension of its line to Chatham, and as a route into northern New England. In 1902, William Webb became president of the Rutland Railroad, and by 1904, the New York Central had majority control of its stock. For those with early copies of the Official Guide, it should be noted that during this time the Rutland Railroad was listed as part of the New York Central System.

At the turn of the twentieth century, the president of the Rutland Railroad, Dr. William Seward Webb, also served as president of the Wagner Palace Car Company. His estate was at Shelburne Farms and the railroad station at Shelburne was built to serve it. The farm dates back to 1886 when Dr. Webb and his wife Lila Vanderbilt Webb began acquiring farmland on the shores of Lake Champlain to create a model agricultural estate. Nationally prominent architect Robert H. Robertson designed four major buildings: the Farm Barn, Breeding Barn, Coach Barn and Shelburne House. Even though well known for its innovative practices, hackney horse breeding enterprise, and grand family residence, the farm failed to be a success and farming operations began to shrink by 1910. In 1972, the farm was restored as a non-profit educational facility. In 2001 the property became a National Historic Landmark.

Bart


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 Post subject: Re: Ellesmere private car
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11531
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Four posts in, and still no one has come right out and said where this car is, or the context of the original query......


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 Post subject: Re: Ellesmere private car
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 2045
Location: Southern California
The Ellesmere is in the Collection of the Nevada State RR Museum, Boulder City. It was gifted to the Museum by the last private owner who had it in Las Vegas. Currently displayed in the roofed display area.

Also see:
Ellesmere
and
New York City wooden body railroad car ban

All wood interior from the late 1890s era.

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Brian Norden


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 Post subject: Re: Ellesmere private car
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:28 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:40 pm
Posts: 387
Location: San Francisco, CA
folks,
I should have said that the car was at the Nevada State Railroad Museum, Bioulder City.

Thanks to all who supplied the information.

Ted Miles


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 Post subject: Re: Ellesmere private car
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:04 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2577
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
Do we know the identity of the donor who gifted it to the museum?

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Tom Gears
Wilmington, DE

Maybe it won't work out. But maybe seeing if it does will be the best adventure ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Ellesmere private car
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 5:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 337
Location: Las Vegas, NV
From the Nevada Southern's website:

https://nevadasouthern.com/equipment/ellsmere/

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Greg Ramsey
Roundhouse Track Services,
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Travel Town Railroad Museum
Nevada Southern Railroad


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 Post subject: Re: Ellesmere private car
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 2041
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
To add on, Barger lists the 2nd Ellsmere was built on 11/28/1888, with 4 bedrooms. Was designated as Plan #3088A after the Pullman merger. Was renamed in 1900 to Pilgrim (2nd) and sold in December 1901 to Ringling Bros.

Interestingly, Barger has no listing for either the 1st or 3rd Ellsmere.

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Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Ellesmere private car
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2023 2:26 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:25 pm
Posts: 1
Ellsmere is on display and available to view for small, private tours. We continue to maintain the car and work continues on preserving the exterior.

The car continues to provide us with new aid-bits of her history. During the days after the assassination attempt on President. Wm McKinley, VP Theodore Roosevelt rode Dr Webb's yacht Elfrida to Shelburne Farms for a short vacation. When the President's health turned for the worse, Roosevelt rode Ellsmere back to Buffalo, NY and was inaugurated President on 9/14/1901.

Frank Carroll


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