Over the years a lot of passenger cars from U.S. railroads went south of the border after they were retired from use here. Anyone know if there is any information out there on which cars still exist down there?

Thanks,
Boyd Owens

ddg14@attbi.com

> Over the years a lot of passenger cars from
> U.S. railroads went south of the border
> after they were retired from use here.
> Anyone know if there is any information out
> there on which cars still exist down there?

> Thanks,
> Boyd Owens

Thanks, Boyd, a few years back I joined the Mexlist group as I had the same question. Without going into a lot of detail, some of the various members constructed a picture that is none too pretty. With the exception of a few cars in museums, tour trains and a handful that were converted by erstwhile Mexican rail officials into Business cars, many many cars were simply scrapped over the years with no apparent view towards historic value.

One notable exception was the ex-WP California Zephyr Obs Silver Planet, which had been converted to a business car. The Mexicans had been unable or unwilling to go to the expense of replacing some of the curved glass that was broken in the dome, so simply built a flat glass greenhouse OVER the existing dome. Have not seen a pic of this, so can only imagine how gross this would look.

Whether the ever-depressed Mexican economy predicated the wholesale scrappings, or just unscrupulous officials, could not be confirmed. My impression from the board at the time, was that Doyle MacCormack and the Smithsonian deserve the Irving Thalberg Lifetime Achievement Award and the Jean Hersholt Humanitarian Award concurrently, for getting the remaining PA bodies out of there just in the nick of time. Privatization, I'm sure, may have taken them,too, had it not been for some incredible horse trading.

One of the members had printed and sent me a list that was current up to 1996 or so, and the stuff that got scrapped was enough to make you cry. I lost touch with them in 1-98, so unaware of what may still be there, but you may want to post over there to find out. David Randall was putting together a comprehensive Mexican RR Passenger Car book at the time, but you can imagine what a titanic undertaking this has been. Will try to locate the list for you. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings.

sbs5cats@kc.rr.com

Thanks for the info Stu. I was afraid that most of the cars were gone, but I didn't realize it was quite so bad.

Boyd

ddg14@attbi.com

> Thanks for the info Stu. I was afraid that
> most of the cars were gone, but I didn't
> realize it was quite so bad.

> Boyd

Boyd, I have located my list from 1990. Send me your snail mail at my email address and I will send you a copy. Also found many great photos taken around 1980 on the Mexlist website. You should check them out. The Silver Planet has been restored and is running on one of the tour trains.



sbs5cats@kc.rr.com

Let me add this observation on this subject. I was able to take two tours to Mexico in 99 and 2001. The Privatization of NdeM had created a excess of old cars both freight and passenger. All intercity passenger trains have disappeared. The only exception is the Copper Canyon train. It has a local train for service along the route.

> Mexican rail officials into Business cars,
> many many cars were simply scrapped over the
> years with no apparent view towards historic
> value.

In 2002 the Mexican Officials of the old NdeM sold a small fleet of passenger cars (may have been Japanize or small fleet of odd builder cars) to Cuba. Also some GE diesels made the trip. The cars are in FNM colors and lettered for Ferrocarril de Cuba. Also some Canadian RDC's and EMD GMD-1's have gone there.

> Whether the ever-depressed Mexican economy
> predicated the wholesale scrappings, or just
> unscrupulous officials, could not be
> confirmed. TONS OF ABANDONED AND WRECKED CARS.

There were stored cars in 2001 in some larger shops and closed shops. Also lots of old EMD, GE and Alco diesels were in canniblized conditions were also in the closed Empalme Shops.

Dale Brown

dwbrown1@fuse.net

Let me pose this question: Did the NdeM (the government) retain ownership of any existing passenger cars? Or did the ownership pass to the company that picked up the property they happened to be sitting on at the time of privatization?

God Bless,
Gerald W. Kopiasz

> Let me add this observation on this subject.
> I was able to take two tours to Mexico in 99
> and 2001. The Privatization of NdeM had
> created a excess of old cars both freight
> and passenger. All intercity passenger
> trains have disappeared. The only exception
> is the Copper Canyon train. It has a local
> train for service along the route.

> In 2002 the Mexican Officials of the old
> NdeM sold a small fleet of passenger cars
> (may have been Japanize or small fleet of
> odd builder cars) to Cuba. Also some GE
> diesels made the trip. The cars are in FNM
> colors and lettered for Ferrocarril de Cuba.
> Also some Canadian RDC's and EMD GMD-1's
> have gone there.

> There were stored cars in 2001 in some
> larger shops and closed shops. Also lots of
> old EMD, GE and Alco diesels were in
> canniblized conditions were also in the
> closed Empalme Shops.

> Dale Brown


hrrhs@aol.com

> Let me pose this question: Did the NdeM (the
> government) retain ownership of any existing
> passenger cars? Or did the ownership pass to
> the company that picked up the property they
> happened to be sitting on at the time of
> privatization?

Gerald,

Since I live in Lima, Peru part time, let me give you example. My wife is a tour guide and interpeter and worked with the PeruRail (British Privatized company for Southern Railway of Peru). She did a tour with the new owners as a interpeter. The Government showed the owners what they wanted them to see. The owners asked is this included in the deal? No, this stays with the Government Railroad Company. They were planning on selling all the excess cars for scrap. Also they attempted to hold back some locomotives.

If this is any example of the way things might of worked in Mexico, then the Government retained ownership of some equipment. I believe that the new companies had no interest in any passenger equipment, except the Copper Canyon Train, which a independent company.They operate on Ferromex trackage of the old CHP. Also they kept some for a future private train use. They would like to run a private train like the South Orient or Sierra Madre Express. The Ferromex company was increasing rental charges on private train use. Maybe to force competition away and build their own set? May be project that is not being pushed now?

There is some very limited Mixed train service left in the desert and mountains near Durango. Only for locals and not regular scheduled service. We saw cars for those trains sitting in sidings on Ferromex. Nearly every yard that was closed had both freight and passenger cars stored. In very poor conditions. Lots of old 40 ft boxcars and old freight equipment.

Dale Brown
Lima, Peru



dwbrown1@fuse.net