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 Post subject: Re: LS&I 21 is moved to Wisconsin
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:15 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2473
Location: Northern Illinois
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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: LS&I 21 is moved to Wisconsin
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
One has to give 22's owners a lot of credit. The locomotive was disassembled, in the middle of a rebuild, when it was stopped, for a number of reasons. The owners, instead of leaving the locomotive disassembled and derelict, decided to reassemble her and gave her a nice cosmetic restoration.

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 Post subject: Re: LS&I 21 is moved to Wisconsin
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
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Quote:
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Thanks, Dennis!

Steve Hunter


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 Post subject: Re: LS&I 21 is moved to Wisconsin
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
Posts: 203
Thanks to all who responded to my question, especially Dennis who provided the complete picture.

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: LS&I 21 is moved to Wisconsin
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2473
Location: Northern Illinois
Reading through the link I posted, I see there is a gap in the history of LS&I 34:

This locomotive was at IRM for a while. IIRC, it was purchased by the late Herb Hanson, and stored in Elgin, IL for a while, a couple blocks from Herb's laundry. The engine moved to the IRM campus sometime in the seventies. After the legal issues with Herb's "trust" were sorted, the engine became property of IRM.

At the 1984 auction, IRM purchased LS&I 35, sister to 34. The reason I recall is the 35 had a tender booster, something not previously represented in the IRM collection. After the questions of ownership were resolved, the 34 was declared surplus, and went to Western Maryland Scenic in 1992, where it was remodeled to "WM 734." As big as these larger LS&I engines are, I'm told that the 34 is still about 10% smaller in all principle specifications than the real WM consolidations.

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 Post subject: Re: LS&I 21 is moved to Wisconsin
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 1:50 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 434
If anyone could find a picture of the damage to the LS&I #32 I would offer up a million dollars and my first born. I have been trying for years to find a picture of the damage to this locomotive just as proof that it really did happen.

P.S. Anyone have more on the K&T #11 or the C&O loco also used for destructive purposes?

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: LS&I 21 is moved to Wisconsin
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 531
Location: Canada
BigBoy 4023 wrote:
If anyone could find a picture of the damage to the LS&I #32 I would offer up a million dollars and my first born. I have been trying for years to find a picture of the damage to this locomotive just as proof that it really did happen.

P.S. Anyone have more on the K&T #11 or the C&O loco also used for destructive purposes?

Robert


This is as close as I can find, apparently this shot is her being hauled away for bombing practice...


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 Post subject: Re: LS&I 21 is moved to Wisconsin
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
Posts: 203
Anybody know where the bombing practice was conducted, or whether any usable parts might survive?

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: LS&I 21 is moved to Wisconsin
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:51 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 531
Location: Canada
BigBoy 4023 wrote:
If anyone could find a picture of the damage to the LS&I #32 I would offer up a million dollars and my first born. I have been trying for years to find a picture of the damage to this locomotive just as proof that it really did happen.

P.S. Anyone have more on the K&T #11 or the C&O loco also used for destructive purposes?

Robert


Can I collect anything for this image? Taken at Eglin AFB Florida, the engine is fitted with antennae to help missiles zero in on their target.


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 Post subject: Re: LS&I 21 is moved to Wisconsin
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:18 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:14 pm
Posts: 509
Location: Essex, Connecticut, USA
Dear Big Boy 4023:
In January 1980, Dennis Daugherty, Nick Kallas and myself took a trip to Florida (in my brand new Datsun B-210 Station Wagon) to sponge off the late Andy Bianchi (all of us are/were members of IRM). Andy had retired, bought a house near Tampa (?) and had invited IRM folks he had worked with to visit.
I was still doing research for "The Steam Locomotive Directory of North America", so our trip wandered around to sites where I hoped to find existant steam locomotives.
After picking up Nick at Mobile (?) we headed to Florida, stopping at Eglin Air Force Base, last know home of former LS&I No.32.
At Eglin I spoke to the Information Officer at their little museum. He said that the locomotive had been destroyed as part of a "Fire Power Demonstration" and referred us to a photo collage of that event, one portion of which showed No.32 being blown up.
I took a color slide (remember those?) of the collage and have spent the last hour looking for it in anticipation of receiving US$1M from you so I can retire (with all due respect, you can keep the kid).
Alas, after an hour of looking through cases of slides, I have not found it, but I would suppose, that Eglin still has the collage (perhaps even the photo).
Now if they don't, and your offer stands, I'll do another search.
However, even if they blew it up, we still don't know that whether or not in some kudzu covered corner of Eglin there are the remains of the No.32.
J.David
PS: This reminds me of Jensen's former CB&Q No.5632. Since it would appear that no photos exist of it being cut up, there are some who continue to believe that it still exists (hidden perhaps, in the WV coal mine with the NYC Hudson (or was the NYC Hudson in an abandoned roundhouse in Grand Rapids, MI?, I forget). Or perhaps with the Erie 4-6-2 in Korea. JDC


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 Post subject: Re: LS&I 21 is moved to Wisconsin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:00 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:16 am
Posts: 469
Location: Northern Illinois
I find it mind-boggling that LS&I #32 was purchased and then shipped from the U.P. of Michigan all the way to Florida just so it could be used as target practice. The story behind the purchase, the movement and destruction would be fascinating. And how was #32 chosen over all of the rest of the locomotives that resided on the LS&I or M&HM?

Don C.


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 Post subject: Re: LS&I 21 is moved to Wisconsin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:41 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 434
Well, You will have to pass on that 1 million. If I had that much I would have found the dang wreck and probably bought it as a art piece just for a conversation piece.

But, In all seriousness, I would love to hear the complete story and see those destruction photos.

Finally someone has shed a little more light on this mysterious event in railroad history.

I have often wondered why they did not use one of those MRS-1 locomotives that were in storage during that time? To destroy a steam locomotive should be a crime of the highest order. Diesels on other hand are expendable!

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: LS&I 21 is moved to Wisconsin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:49 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:54 pm
Posts: 72
A few corrections:
I was the locomotive messenger moving LS&I #34 from Marquette, MI in 1971. The locomotive moved on a couple of week ends directly to Union, IL with only stops in route. The locomotives stored in Elgin, IL were two 0-6-0s that also moved to Union.

I personally purchased LS&I 35 at the estate auction for $1400.00 a few months later I offered it to IRM for the same price as I was then a Board Member at IRM an felt it was the correct thing to do. After IRM purchase of #35 that made LS&I# 34 excess- it was later traded for a C&O 2-8-4 with that person then selling #34 to the Western Maryland Scenic
With reference to LS&I# 32 I have a different memory of what we were told at Eglin AFB
that the locomotive was used as some kind of electronic target and not actually shot at. I also remember that picture of the locomotive but think flames and bomb blast were next to locomotive or possible "special effects". But we were told locomotive was scrapped after its use as a "target" ended


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 Post subject: Re: LS&I 21 is moved to Wisconsin
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:40 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 434
Hell, The LS&I #32 could be on a mars for all we know. I hate it when we have to deal with sketchy buyers who use RR stock for other than intended purposes.

I remember being contacted a while back by a couple of fellows who read my plea on the LS&I mailing list, One said the LS&I #32 still exist??? I will believe that when Santa Claus shows himself. The other fellow said the #32 was setup for remote control and then used as a rolling target.

Sigh, I guess we may never know the truth on the fate of the H16 #32.

Only a decent photo of her blown to bits or a pile of scrap will conclude this long standing mystery.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: LS&I 21 is moved to Wisconsin
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:43 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 572
Location: Wall, NJ
The question of a steam locomotive potentially sitting at Eglin AFB caught my interest here, in part because I have had some projects at Eglin over the years. It is a test range, but for some of the more unusual items one might test and rarely ever make public.

Via google and some resulting AF articles there was indeed a steam locomotive at Eglin. Key though is that the photo that was posted previously was taken in 1967. The related article indicates that the locomotive was used as late as March 1967 and that what you see sticking out of it are a series of antennas for the remote control of the locomotive as it was operated as a moving target. The antennas are not there to help a missile zero in on a target.

So, why would anyone want to use a steam locomotive for target practice in 1967? Again, via further google hunting you find that the USAF targeting of North Vietnamese railroads was dismal. At the time the North was still using steam locomotives.

I would tend to surmise then that the Eglin steam locomotive was operated in 1967 to help train Vietnam era USAF air crews on how to disable a moving steam locomotive. This is based on the photos, captions, and other historical elements.

With that all said, does this locomotive still exist? Probably need to see what the USAF was using as weapons at the time versus such targets to determine how much of the locomotive was destroyed as a target. Was it used once? Or a series of times? Were training rounds used? My hunch is that its sitting someplace on the base, long forgotten. Really need a local retired USAF guy to go on the hunt. Know anyone?

J.R. May
Wall, NJ


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