Agreed, not that I have much to donate, however. If I'm going to donate, I'm going to donate to the outfit that has their act together,; and I believe most large donors share my philosophy.

Linotype.

Yes. I'm THAT old, and our newspaper that ancient in technology. (We shifted to computer-generated layout ca. 1974, and the two Linotypes were dismantled around 1988. I still have the builder's plates.)

The problem is that you're not donating "to" the Strasburg RR. You'd be donating to the owners/caretakers of 1361, namely the Railroaders Memorial Museum.

And almost every last issue surrounding that locomotive and its condition or lack thereof centers around said Museum's administration and management issues thereof with regards to said loco. Suffice it to say that, in my estimation, the "big-check" donors will not be satisfied with simply hearing the Museum select the Strasburg, or for that matter TVRM, Grand Canyon, or whoever else is deemed good. Remember........... oh, that's right, they don't....... the very first overhaul in 1987 involved such "notable" names as Bill Withuhn and Doyle McCormack. Bringing in "celebrity-endorsed" names isn't going to "cut it" anymore.

Furthermore, no slight against the excellent craftsmen (and ladies) of Strasburg, but the more that people clamor for one, and only one, place to do it, the less competitive, and more expensive, the project gets.

(And once again, we'll note: The current RMM management did not create the problem, but only inherited it.)

one thing to remember is several eastern states signed a consortium to promote railroad history (or whatever the name is they signed) so this would help this museum procure funds/grants to persue the museum. Its sounds like there's the bigger idea to create a home and history of the Altoona railroad history as well as not just the locomotive itself.
Heck, building a whole new roundhouse is pretty serious to me. It seems they had to take time away and develop the whole concept and build it.
Having the engine sit where it was before and no place for it while it was operating if it had been completed earlier meant there was no "Place" for it. hence now...the -Place- for the engine is established. Seems to connect very well to me.

Maybe some day we will see it fly over Horseshoe curve and pass by its old former resting place.

I guess I didn't word my previous statement clearly. I meant to suggest that bringing in an outfit with Strasburg's reputation would signal to me that they have gotten their act together.



I never stated that "celebrity-endorsed" names were needed. If I or those in my circles are going to put a single red cent in a project, the track record of the executing party is an important factor. Strasburg has a positive track record for quality work, as do other outfits, though not with the same name recognition.



Exactly why you need to narrow down to a few outfits with the good track records and then see who can do it sooner (not faster, sooner, as in has less work waiting), and who offers the better price.



And from what I have heard since I started on this board, hasn't done as bad as could be done. Yet shockingly people are unhappy because the engine still can't climb Horseshoe Curve after how many millions of dollars poured into 1361? Naturally people will look at the numbers and say "wait a minute", but when management changes, the questioning remains until substantial, positive change occurs. (See federal gov't) Now this may happen this year, it might not. We will have to wait and see.

I might be misunderstanding what you meant here, Sandy, but if you knew the
full extent of the artificial (and financial) constraints that were put on that first overhaul by the state, the local politicians, and others you might be surprised it ran at all after that. But you would not be surprised that it had problems ever since.

If you are going to utilize quality people and/or shops, the only way to do so is to
get the heck out of their way and let them do their jobs. The insane micromanagement of the first overhaul is part of the current problems with the engine.

IMO

I am well aware of the reality of what happened the first (couple) times around on 1361.

The point of what I was saying was that simply bringing on those rumored/reported/lauded to be "the best in the business" does not guarantee success. Other factors are involved, and you seem to confirm that.

The attitude of too many people that are in the crowd all but chanting "Strasburg!! Strasburg!! Strasburg!!" appears to be "Ship 1361 to Strasburg, cut the bu££§h!#, and get out of the way". Unfortunately for them, grant money from governments, on all but the most local of levels, comes made from, processed through, and encased in "bu££§h!#". You don't get the one without the other.

I can cite, in private and not for public display, several cases that I've been involved with where a simple job like weatherproofing or repairing a structure or installing a new HVAC system, which could have been done professionally for a couple tens of thousands of dollars or less had they been done by penny-pinching volunteers seeking out donations, spiraled into the hundreds of thousands of dollars because of the constraints and demands of "public" dollars involved. I'm currently watching one group that is being offered a substantial government grant to build a new facility at a new site a few feet higher out of a flood plain than their current facility; the catch is that they would be required to demolish (not move, dismantle, or sell, demolish) the existing facility, which could still be perfectly functional as a shop, storage facility (albeit vulnerable to flooding), etc. as is.

Moving to Railfanning as there appears to be nothing but dead-horse-beating going on here.

http://www.altoonapa.gov/Lists/City%20of%20Altoona%20Announcements/DispForm.aspx?ID=374&ContentTypeId=0x01040029CAA304E4FDEB4C852C5C8379DB6608

I believe that this link will be of help. 1361 was indeed mentioned, however many of you are certainly getting your hopes up on what went on.

Emphasis mine.

I don't know what the first four amendments were--possibly previous contract extensions due to previous delays? If so, all this has been is kicking the proverbial can down the road......

Nothing quite like a 1361 thread (good move to railfanning). 1361 reminds me of Apollo XIII. Set out for the Moon and things went wrong. With that in mind I’m reminded of Gene Kranz and his practicality. “Gentlemen, let’s look at this from a perspective of status…What do we have on that thing that works?”

So in terms of status, what restoration work on 1361 was done correctly, and what is left to do to make it whole?
For example, the patch in the third* boiler course to fix the attach point for the steam dome. It was done – did it fix that problem? (*I’m counting from front to back excluding the smoke box.)

Just trying to get the glass half full.

So, if I dare to open THAT can of worms, what's the current status of that roundhouse? Still being finished? Awiting inspection? Awaiting Certificate of Occupancy? Already full?

There is still hundreds of thousands of dollars of work needed on the boiler. 3/4 of the inner firebox sheets need to be fabricated and installed along with most of the stay bolts. The roof sheet need replaced, the reason why the project was suspended a few years ago. And there is the issue of the steam dome patch being fit for service with welding done to the patch after it was repaired and heat treated.

Have to love the "good luck" scribed on the "new" back head. That photo really underscores the complexity of the Belpaire firebox. Well at least in terms of the stay bolt array between the roof and crown sheet. Not much wiggle room (like none) to modify the pattern to address the 4:1 requirement.

And thanks for the insight on the dome repair. The Belpaire strikes again. The welded repair kept the job out of the complex transition (correction - Hip) to the firebox roof. I presume the hip is the reason the repair did not span the entire top of the third stage of the boiler from rivet joint to rivet joint with welding closing the seam like the patch put on RGS 20's boiler to fix the dent.

upon futher review of the photo of her boiler seen here http://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30294, the welded repair kept the repair away from a replacement of the upper half of the boiler course with the steam dome.

Oh my! The outdoor speakers posing with the boiler are begging for a snarky comment...

"1361 project Hopefully Steam Sounds by the end of the year"