It is currently Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:28 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: 4501 in the late 80s
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:01 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:26 pm
Posts: 8
Here's something ive always wondered about. Where was 4501 in 1987 and 88? I know she ran in 84,85,and 89 but that appeared to be it for the 80s. Where was she for those two years? Was she laid up with issues?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4501 in the late 80s
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:32 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
Time to drag out "Steam's Camelot". At work so I'll have to check later. I assume there is a gap for 4501 in that time frame in the books excursion roster. The A and the J pretty much took over excursions in 1987. 2 very large complex modern steam locomotives take some resources to keep running. If 1984 was the year 4501 came back into service, then 88-89 would have been her 5 year overhaul timeframe. Lastly assuming the NS used typical FY budgeting, there simply may not have been funds to operate her in 87 and 88 with a major 5 year needed around that time.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4501 in the late 80s
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:18 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
Tnx Jeff for the dates.

Jeff Lisowski wrote:
From my records;

4501 was towed from Irondale, AL to TVRM on January 11, 1987.


The A was test fired a few days later on the 16th (per the highly reliable Wiki)

IIRC (and I'm prone to error) 4501 was not exactly a great mainline steamer by this point. She joined 611 and 1218 for the 25 anv trip out of Chattanooga in 1991 as far as Ooltewah Jct. Then there is the fabled 1994 Atlanta NRHS Conv. 4501 was supposed to handle the Lula, GA to Athens, GA portion of a trip and then triple head as far as Rome, GA with 1522 and 611. Then return a section of that train to Atlanta while 1522 and 611 continued to Chattanooga. This did not happen and the rumor was that her wheels couldn't make the run.

Her latest overhaul featured significant running gear work - work she's probably needed going back to the 1984-85 timeframe. In fact when you consider all that was done, the ol gal was probably pretty beat in 85.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4501 in the late 80s
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:53 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
Finally got to Steam's Camelot. 4501 sat out 1985 to June 1991, and was used off and on til May 1994. (was the may 89 a TVRM deal and not a NS?) 611 was out from Sept 87 to Sept 88 (5 year I guess).

Did 4501 base out of Chattanooga after 87?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4501 in the late 80s
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:29 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 726
Location: Tucson, Arizona
As I recall, 4501 was pretty much based out of Chattanooga after 1987.

_________________
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4501 in the late 80s
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:12 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
Jeff Lisowski wrote:
TimReynolds wrote:
4501 sat out 1985 to June 1991,


See my previous post, 4501 did operate in 1985. I rode one of those trips.


Oops on me should have specified from the Meridian to Irondale trip in 85 to 91 - per your post...

As to the original question

Southern4501fan wrote:
Here's something ive always wondered about. Where was 4501 in 1987 and 88? I know she ran in 84,85,and 89 but that appeared to be it for the 80s. Where was she for those two years? Was she laid up with issues?


That would be answerable by folks involved with either NS or TVRM at the time.

We do know they transitioned from the smaller locomotive roster (630/722/750/4501) to the 611/1218 roster. The set up with 611 and 1218 was similar to 4501 and 630/722 where they leased 611 and owned 1218 (the long colorful story of 1218 is a good read) much the same as they leased 4501 and owned 630/722 (these 2 were on the books until after the 1994 end I believe). All this said, the 1982 to 1987 period was one of clearing out the old roster in Irondale to make room for the two big ones.
630 and 722 went to Chattanooga first 81 or 82??? (Jeff do you know those dates?)
750 was returned to Atlanta in Nov/Dec 84.
and Per Jeff's data 4501 went to Chattanooga in January 11, 1987.
The storage of 2716 until the end baffles me. Once the Southern and N&W merged, the C&O loco wasn't going to run again.
The NS Steam program as we know did lease/use many locomotives once they got down to 2 based in Irondale. The expansive and system wide excursion schedule required this to balance ops and get a steam loco on the front end of as many trips as they could. 611 and 1218 could not go everywhere they liked to run trips.

nuff for now I'm probably regurgitating stuff most folks already know or know better than I do...


Last edited by TimReynolds on Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4501 in the late 80s
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:55 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
Jeff thanks on the 750 date - I seemed to remember that it was January but did not remember how long she was in Duluth before her 75th anniversary fire up and trips the next January (1985). Those push pull trips into the remnant of Hulsey Yard ultimately gave rise to the New GA RR. I road from Brookwood Station to Duluth that day (1/28/1984). My dad knew folks with the Atlanta Chapter and while we were speaking with them at the station, one of them said hey climb on and ride. So I hopped on in the vestibule of their C of GA coach while my dad followed out to Duluth. I got pics of that at home I'll have to scan and add later...


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4501 in the late 80s
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:06 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
TimReynolds wrote:
I road from Brookwood Station to Duluth that day (1/28/1984). My dad knew folks with the Atlanta Chapter and while we were speaking with them at the station, one of them said hey climb on and ride. So I hopped on in the vestibule of their C of GA coach while my dad followed out to Duluth. I got pics of that at home I'll have to scan and add later...


There were 3 coaches in the consist. The C of G coach and 2 heavy weight coaches. Here is 750 arriving at Howell Junction. Crossing the (W&A, NC&StL, L&N, now CSX ROW)
Attachment:
File comment: S&A 750 @ Howell Jct, 1/28/1984
750_1_28_1984_001.jpg
750_1_28_1984_001.jpg [ 103.39 KiB | Viewed 2227 times ]


And turning North towards Brookwood Station
Attachment:
750_1_28_1984_002.jpg
750_1_28_1984_002.jpg [ 233.94 KiB | Viewed 2227 times ]


Crossing Buford Hwy in Duluth, GA to get to the old SERM property
Attachment:
750_1_28_1984_003.jpg
750_1_28_1984_003.jpg [ 229.5 KiB | Viewed 2227 times ]


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4501 in the late 80s
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
3 more from that day. Something to note. This may have been 750's first trip to the SERM property in Duluth of all things. It was a big deal for the Atlanta Chapter to have the beloved Loco in their possession after all the years being used by the Southern. 750 sat in Irondale waiting for a 5 year beginning in 1975 she returned to service in 1983 and came home after the 83 season.

Pulling into the museum siding
Attachment:
750_1_28_1984_005.jpg
750_1_28_1984_005.jpg [ 179.54 KiB | Viewed 2171 times ]


Now being pulled backwards to the "shop". That's E-8 6901 to the left.
Attachment:
750_1_28_1984_004.jpg
750_1_28_1984_004.jpg [ 153.83 KiB | Viewed 2171 times ]


One last look as the sun sets
Attachment:
750_1_28_1984_006.jpg
750_1_28_1984_006.jpg [ 120.42 KiB | Viewed 2171 times ]


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4501 in the late 80s
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:44 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
Well should probably bring this back closer to topic. Here is the 01 in Cumberland Gap, TN June 8, 1985.
Attachment:
4501_6_8_1985_001.jpg
4501_6_8_1985_001.jpg [ 162.75 KiB | Viewed 2158 times ]


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4501 in the late 80s
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:34 am
Posts: 371
4501 was removed from service by Norfolk Southern at the end of the 1985 season for a number of reasons - 1218 was about to enter service, 4501 had a tram issue that had put sharp flanges on one side, and her driving box bearings ran hot (probably related to the tram issue). NS had no desire to sink anymore money into 4501 so TVRM requested her return to Chattanooga.

When the Bowaters Corporation asked NS to operate a Director's Special from Chattanooga to their Calhoun, TN, plant, NS contacted TVRM about helping out. We corrected the tram, bored the cylinders, and performed a annual inspection to get 4501 ready for this trip. The trip operated in <ay, 1989, and was flawless.

Following that trip in 1989, the focus at TVRM was finishing the restoration of US Army 610 which debuted in August, 1990. Following that, we changed out the tires on 4501 and got her serviceable for more mainline trips which commenced in 1991 and lasted until the end of the program in 1994.

In 1998, 4501 went out on NS again under strict orders not to apply any tractive effort. This was for the filming of Rocket Boys (released under the name October Sky). Before this move, the offending axle (she had continued to have bearing issues) was machined in the newly operational Niles Journal Lathe. As all of you who have seen the movie know, 4501 made it there and back (and did exert some tractive effort in doing so).

I hope that helps.

_________________
G. Mark Ray - TVRM
www.tvrail.com


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4501 in the late 80s
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:16 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:32 am
Posts: 45
So this year will be the first time that 4501 is pulling public excursions on NS since 1985? I thought 4501 pulled a few trips toward the end of the old program with 1218 out of service for overhaul? Does anyone know when the NS spring schedule at least will be announced? If you're going to have any excursions in March, then the schedule should be out in Feb.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4501 in the late 80s
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:40 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 726
Location: Tucson, Arizona
4501 pulled excursions on the C&C until her boiler certificate expired (1998?). TVRM parked her (at the time) as there did not appear to be any need for a locomotive of her size in the immediate future. That permitted the effort to be put into restoring 630.

_________________
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4501 in the late 80s
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:49 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:54 pm
Posts: 270
Jeff Lisowski wrote:
I'll try to answer the previous post as best I can with my source data;

S&A 750 last operated January 28, 1984, Birmingham, AL to Atlanta, GA (OWF)

SOU 630 was towed December 3, 1978 by GP38 #2701 to TVRM from Irondale, AL to Chattanooga, TN (I believe SOU 610 was also in this tow)

SOU 722 last operated September 3, 1980, Atlanta, GA to Irondale, AL (OW), I have no information after that date.

C&O/SOU 2716 last operated on the Southern program Thursday July 29, 1982 Atlanta, GA to Irondale, AL (OWF on freight), returned from northern Virginia excursions that previous weekend.

The question of why 2716 sat in Birmingham until 1994 is unclear to me. I'm assuming it was an ownership/money situation.

2716 sat in Irondale in need of a major firebox overhaul, it was estimated to cost about $250,000, Claytor said that with 611 running and 1218 coming back that the Railroad didn't need the 2716, so she sat in Irondale, I don't know why she was not shipped back to KRM, but in 95' she was deadheaded to Fort Wayne, Indiana, where Tom Stevens fixed all the fire box problems and she ran a couple of trips for FWRHS over the TP&W during the Iron Horse Festival in 1996, at that time the FRA demanded that she be re-flued (this was right after the Gettysburg incident) and then Fort Wayne decided that they would rather put money into 765 than leased, 2716. Her flues, which had been replaced by the Southern, had only about 30-40 operating days on them and were still very much new. I also read somewhere that FWRHS had wanted to possibly operate 2716 on the New River train in 1996, but the FRA shut that idea down with the flue replacement.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4501 in the late 80s
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:51 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:54 pm
Posts: 270
Robert K wrote:
So this year will be the first time that 4501 is pulling public excursions on NS since 1985? I thought 4501 pulled a few trips toward the end of the old program with 1218 out of service for overhaul? Does anyone know when the NS spring schedule at least will be announced? If you're going to have any excursions in March, then the schedule should be out in Feb.
4501 last pulled an NS Steam trip in May of 1994, right before the NRHS convention, as stated before in this thread, she suffered bearing issues and the newly painted "Southern" GP-59 4610 stood in for 4501 during the convention.


Last edited by southern154 on Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: