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 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:14 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:50 pm
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Very thrilled to find one of these rare WW II veteran locomotives and fairly close to Rochelle. Will try like crazy to get this one saved and brought back home where it was built. I wonder what happened to the original Buda engines, probably junked.



I think the Buda's were very hard to get parts for. Maryland Midland RR had one of these that ran well that had CAT's in it and this one has Cummins. However, the one in the picture I sent you still has the Buda engines.

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:00 am 
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Location: Rochelle Illinois
arjay3 wrote:
I think the Buda's were very hard to get parts for. Maryland Midland RR had one of these that ran well that had CAT's in it and this one has Cummins. However, the one in the picture I sent you still has the Buda engines.

Rich

Where did that Whitcomb in your photo go to? I'm curious as to how many of these still exist.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:52 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:50 pm
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It is on the Wanamaker, Kempton and Southern in Kempton PA painted as L&NE 602.
Operational last I knew.


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 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:18 pm 
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Location: Rochelle Illinois
Still no answer from the gentleman. Maybe he is on a trip. I've left two voice mails with my phone number and nothing back.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:08 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:54 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
arjay3 wrote:
Quote:
Very thrilled to find one of these rare WW II veteran locomotives and fairly close to Rochelle. Will try like crazy to get this one saved and brought back home where it was built. I wonder what happened to the original Buda engines, probably junked.



I think the Buda's were very hard to get parts for. Maryland Midland RR had one of these that ran well that had CAT's in it and this one has Cummins. However, the one in the picture I sent you still has the Buda engines.

Rich


Since the late 1960's, an understatement. In 1953, Buda was acquired by Allis Chalmers so A-C would have access to the Buda diesel engine line. The DCS-1879 was the "dog" of the engine fleet. The heads were poorly designed from a cooling perspective and wide variations in water temperature were allowed to occur causing the heads to crack and leak coolant into the lubricating system. Caustic embrittlement was also known to occur in the heads. Many operations using the Whitcomb 65-ton locomotive seemed to find that the CAT D17000 was a replacement that would actually work due to the horsepower curve, top RPM rating and the ability of the crankshaft/flywheel to support the rotating mass and weight of the Westinghouse main generator without re-engineering the locomotive. Many steel mills continued using the Whitcombs into the 1980's, mostly due to large spare supplies on hand and the fact that most mills were scheduled to close in the near future. Bethlehem Steel had several Whitcombs operating at their Bethelehem, PA plant into the 1990's, virtually unknown outside of the plant.

A review of the history of the high-speed diesel engine reveals many players back when Whitcomb was building locomotives but as time went on, the inherent deficiencies of several builders became obvious, Buda being one them, and the customers found a superior product elsewhere. Unfortunately, the Buda DCS-1879 is a diffiuclt engine to keep running in a locomotive. It is known that the DCS-1879 was used in drag-lines and parts can be found at suppliers from time to time. In stationary service where engine temperatures don't vary as much as on locomotives, engine life could be prolonged. But once A-C stopped supporting the engine and the existing supply of easily obtainable parts dried up, the life of the engine expired at the next problem.

From experience, the maintenance demands of a 65-ton Whitcomb with Buda engines far exceeds the benefits in a cost-effective perspective. If the maintenance people are paid employees, the locomotive can be a huge money pit. With very dedicated and talented volunteers who know the inner workings of the creature, the locomotive can lead fairly productive service life. And from first hand experience, one of these moving along the rails is a sight and sound experience that isn't soon forgotten.

Rob


Last edited by Rob on Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:47 pm 
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Location: Rochelle Illinois
Rob - do you have a rough idea how much it would cost to move this locomotive from Mason City, Iowa to Rochelle, Illinois?

How much did it cost to move yours and what problems were involved?

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:05 pm 
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Location: Rochelle Illinois
Rob wrote:
The DCS-1879 was the "dog" of the engine fleet. The heads were poorly designed from a cooling perspective and wide variations in water temperature were allowed to occur causing the heads to crack and leak coolant into the lubricating system. Caustic embrittlement was also known to occur in the heads.


This seems to be verified by the U.S. Army during WW II:

Image

Image

Quote:
"Lieutenant Flanigan remarked that his chief worry at present is finding enough Buda cylinder heads to fill the many requisitions. Sixty orders have bee filled, with more coming in."

The Yankee Boomer
August 9th, 1945
p. 6


Bad Buda, bad Buda.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:07 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:54 pm
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Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
machinehead61 wrote:
Rob - do you have a rough idea how much it would cost to move this locomotive from Mason City, Iowa to Rochelle, Illinois?

How much did it cost to move yours and what problems were involved?

Steve


Move costs vary with all sorts of criteria: availability of moving equipment, accessibility at both ends of move, routing requirements due to overhead clearances & bridge weight limits, and so forth. Back in 1988, the move was begun with a rail trip over trackage that was more than 80% of the distance needed to be traveled. That couldn't be done in 2013. Cranes and trailers completed the final 12 miles. The costs from that time period are well below what one would pay today. Rough guess would $15K+, just a guess.

The following may help you figure out costs: For an unmodified 65DE19A, each truck weighs 30,000# complete. The carbody less fuel, water and lubricating oils weighs in at 70,000#. You already have the line diagram for height and width. If you use cranes, remember to factor in the distance from the crane to the locomotive (how close you can site the crane) as that will help you figure out the size crane you'll really need. Also, it may be less expensive to use two (2) flatbed trailers so each can haul a truck by itself than to get an overweight permit (load can be divided).

Good luck.
Rob


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 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:56 pm 
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Location: Rochelle Illinois
Thank you Rob.

I contacted Lehigh Cement Company in Mason City, Iowa and they confirmed that they still own the Whitcomb and it does date back to WW II. They parked it about 3 years ago after experiencing traction motor problems and bought another locomotive to replace it.

They attempted to move it a number of years ago on a local UP line for some service work elsewhere but the UP inspected the Whitcomb and found that the wheels did not measure up to UP standards (flange problems? This unit was built in 1943 and designed for European service).

Some scrap dealers did look at it but nothing came from it. Perhaps it cost more to move than the scrap value since it can't be moved by rail.

The manager that oversees the locomotive has tried to contact me but my voice mail isn't working and I missed his calls. I will try to call him tomorrow.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:40 pm 
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An update on the Whitcomb in Iowa. Another group is interested in the unit so I'm in waiting mode to see if they come up with the money to get it.

Another WW II photo:

Image

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:15 pm 
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Location: Rochelle Illinois
Image

A friend photographed this out of the Baldwin Magazine and touched it up for contrast. The camouflaged Whitcombs in Africa during WW II.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am 

Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:12 am
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Steve
can you help me , i am looking for drawing from the Whitecomb who where delivered to europe (specialy the Netherlands)
we want to make a proper O-scale model from this engine.
the drawing i found on this thread is helpfull but wont show a lot af detail.

for the real thing:
after the war the dutch Railway ( NS = Nederlandse Spoorwegen ) bought 20 engines
they put 18 into service, due to the poor performence of the engines
short after this they decided to exchange the buda's for other engines.
after 1958 all locomotifs where put out of service ,no one survived (sadly)
Cor


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 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:48 am 
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cor wrote:
Steve
can you help me , i am looking for drawing from the Whitecomb who where delivered to europe (specialy the Netherlands)
we want to make a proper O-scale model from this engine.
the drawing i found on this thread is helpfull but wont show a lot af detail.

for the real thing:
after the war the dutch Railway ( NS = Nederlandse Spoorwegen ) bought 20 engines
they put 18 into service, due to the poor performence of the engines
short after this they decided to exchange the buda's for other engines.
after 1958 all locomotifs where put out of service ,no one survived (sadly)
Cor
Sorry about not getting back sooner. I've been very busy with writing a column for our local newspaper and then I had a small stroke (no permanent effect) that has sent me on a lot of medical tests. I am 52 years old, never smoked a day in my life, never did drugs, maybe drink a beer once a year and thought I was in pretty good health except for my blood pressure and cholesterol were kind of high.

I can suggest that you contact the California State Railroad Museum and see if they have the original drawings for the 65 ton defense locomotives. All of the existing company records went out there as far as I know.

Good luck with your search.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:22 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:06 pm
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Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Hello Steve,

Glad to see you back, and sorry to hear about your health setback. Hope your testing goes well, with positive results. Ah, the "other side" of 50.....

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:38 pm 
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Location: Rochelle Illinois
Howard P. wrote:
Hello Steve,

Glad to see you back, and sorry to hear about your health setback. Hope your testing goes well, with positive results. Ah, the "other side" of 50.....

Howard P.

Thank you Howard. I really feel great as if the stroke never happened. Doctor said I was lucky. I should get back to posting more Whitcomb stuff.

Steve

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