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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:10 pm 
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Thanks, Howard, for the info and photos!

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Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:28 pm 

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Some clarifications and corrections on the Rochester group of cars
Car 2566 - sold to Rochester Chapter NRHS, 1988. Renamed Richard Tickner. Corporate name change to Rochester & Genesee Valley Railroad Museum, 2010. Located in Rush, NY.

The following applies to cars 2567, 2568, 2571, 2572, 2578: sold to Empire State Railcar, 1988. To Rochester Chapter, NRHS, 1995. Corporate name change to Rochester & Genesee Valley Railroad Museum, 2010. Located in Rush, NY

To the best of my knowledge, 2577 was never part of the Rochester group of cars, and was never owned by the Chapter or Museum

JR


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:42 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
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Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
#2569 to #1706 to PC #2106 to CR #2106 to MNCR #2106 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? Current status unknown.


This car and three others were sold to Empire State Railcar, which in turn sold them to Strates Shows a couple of years ago. Four cars total were acquired (at least two had been used on the Battenkill RR in excursion service) but which cars became what on JESX's roster still isn't certain but I do know that most of the older IC and ACL cars were retired and scrapped. The four cars that were acquired also have carried two JESX numbers, the one given to each car when they were first acquired and a second JESX number after the work had been completed on the cars.

Add to the mystery of the JESX cars is that apparently they did not accompany the freight cars of the operation this year so I don't know if they will be returning to the train or not. Really don't understand why after only two seasons the cars are not with the rest of the train as has been normal for decades... it may be that housing the crews that traveled with the carnival has become too costly to use the passenger cars.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:28 pm 
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Thanks, John, for the info on the Rochester & Genesee Valley cars!

Thanks, Jerry, for the info on the JESX cars!

Is it possible that #2577 was one of the other three cars sold by ESRX to JESX?

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:48 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
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Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
Is it possible that #2577 was one of the other three cars sold by ESRX to JESX?


As a matter of fact...

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=584852

Empire State Railcar 1709 is ex-Metro North/MTA 2109, exx-PC 1709, exxx-NYC 1709, NYC 2577 Daniel D. Topmpkins. When renumbered to NYC 1709 the car had been rebuilt to a 108-seat commuter coach.

This car was renumbered first to JESX 102 [1st] when picked up while the show was moving through New York and then renumbered last year to JESX 103 [2nd] when it was rebuilt.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:04 am 
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Thanks, Jerry, for the info on #2577!

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:37 pm 
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Part One: Prewar Lightweights, Continued:

Coaches, Continued:

45 Cars, P-S, Lot #6651, Plan #7464, 1941, NYC Lot #2140:

Ordered in December 1940 and delivered between August and October 1941. 56 seat coaches.

#2600 to PC #1609 to #2600 sold in 1971 to John Williams (Indianapolis), later (when??) to Ted Church (Erie, PA)*. Current status unknown.

*Randall lists this car as sold in 1971 to John Williams, and Link lists this car as sold in 1971 to Ted Church. As previously noted, Church did indeed own this car, at least for a short while. Did Church acquire this car directly from PC, or from Williams??

#2601 scrapped in 5-1966.

#2602 scrapped in 10-1964.

#2603 to PC #2603 scrapped in 1971.

#2604 scrapped in 10-1964.

#2605 to storage shed (on ground), Detroit Yard, 1-1965. Current status unknown.

#2606 to PC #2606 sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton and named Paul K. Brock (Chattanooga). Current status unknown.

#2607 to PC #1601 to #2607 sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton and named B. Allen Casey. Current status unknown.

#2608 to PC #2608 scrapped in 1971.

#2609 scrapped in 1968.

#2610 to PC #2610 sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton and named Emma Patton Casey. Current status unknown.

#2611 scrapped in 10-1964.

#2612 to PC #2612 scrapped in 1971.

#2613 to PC #2613 scrapped in 1971.

#2614 to PC #1603 to #2614 sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton and named H. Clay Evans Johnson. Current status unknown.

#2615 to PC #2615 scrapped in 1971.

#2616 to PC #2616 sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton and named Klaus Netwig. Current status unknown.

#2617 scrapped in 10-1964.

#2618 to PC #2618 scrapped in 1971.

#2619 to PC #1604 to #2619 sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton and named Cartter Frierson. Current status unknown.

#2620 scrapped in 1-1965.

#2621 scrapped in 10-1964.

#2622 scrapped in 5-1966.

#2623 scrapped in 10-1964.

#2624 to PC #2624 scrapped in 1971.

#2625 scrapped in 10-1964.

#2626 to PC #2626 scrapped in 1971.

#2627 to PC #2627 scrapped in 1971.

#2628 to PC #1611 to #2628 scrapped in 1971*.

*Randall lists this car as scrapped in 1971, and Link lists this car as sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton.

#2629 to PC #2629 scrapped in 1971.

#2630 scrapped in 10-1964.

#2631 scrapped in 10-1964.

#2632 to MofW number unknown, 4-1965. Current status unknown.

#2633 to PC #1614 to #2633 scrapped in 1971*.

*Randall lists this car as scrapped in 1971, and Link lists this car as sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton.

#2634 wrecked in 3-1953.

#2635 to PC #2635 sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton and named Joseph W. Graves. Current status unknown.

#2636 scrapped in 1-1965.

#2637 to PC #2637 scrapped in 1971.

#2638 to PC #1607 to #2638 scrapped in 1971.

#2639 to PC #1610 to #2639 scrapped in 1971.

#2640 to PC #2640 scrapped in 1971.

#2641 to PC #1608 to #2641 scrapped in 1971.

#2642 to PC #1606 to #2642 scrapped in 1971.

#2643 to PC #2643 scrapped in 1971.

#2644 to PC #2644 scrapped in 1971.

25 Cars, AC&F, Lot #2209, 1941, NYC Lot #2141:

Ordered in December 1940 and delivered between November 1941 and January 1942. 56 seat coaches.

#2645 to PC #2645 sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton and named William Parker. Current status unknown.

#2646 to PC #1612 to #2646 sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton and named Richard W. Cardin. Current status unknown.

#2647 to PC #2647 reconfigured in 1969 to 108 seat commuter coach #2141 to CR #2141 to MNCR #2141 (1983??). Current status unknown.

#2648 to PC #1605 to #2648 scrapped in 1971.

#2649 to PC #1602 to #2649 scrapped in 1971.

#2650 to PC #2650 reconfigured in 1969 to 108 seat commuter coach #2142 to CR #2142 to MNCR #2142 (1983??). Current status unknown.

#2651 to PC #2651 reconfigured in 1970 to 108 seat commuter coach #2143 to CR #2143 to MNCR #2143 (1983??). Current status unknown.

#2652 to PC #2652 sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton and named Harlan A. Mills. Current status unknown.

#2653 to PC #2653 reconfigured in 1969 to 108 seat commuter coach #2145 to CR #2145 to MNCR #2145 (1983??). Current status unknown.

#2654 to PC #2654 reconfigured in 1970 to 108 seat commuter coach #2146 to CR #2146 to MNCR #2146 (1983??). Current status unknown.

#2655 scrapped in 4-1966.

#2656 scrapped in 7-1967.

#2657 scrapped in 4-1967.

#2658 to PC #2658 reconfigured in 1970 to 108 seat commuter coach #2147 to CR #2147 to MNCR #2147 (1983??). Current status unknown.

#2659 to PC #1613 to #2659 scrapped in 1971.

#2660 to PC #2660 reconfigured in 1969 to 108 seat commuter coach #2148 to CR #2148 to MNCR #2148 (1983??). Current status unknown.

#2661 to PC #2661 reconfigured in 1970 to 108 seat commuter coach #2149 to CR #2149 to MNCR #2149 (1983??). Current status unknown.

#2662 to PC #2662 reconfigured in 1969 to 108 seat commuter coach #2150 to CR #2150 to MNCR #2150 (1983??). Current status unknown.

#2663 to PC #2663 reconfigured in 1970 to 108 seat commuter coach #2151 to CR #2151. Scrapped in 1977.

#2664 to PC #2664 sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton and named Phil Whitaker. Current status unknown.

#2665 to PC #1600 to #2665 sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton and named George A. Fillover, Jr.. Current status unknown.

#2666 to PC #2666 sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton. Current status unknown.

#2667 to PC #1615 to #2667 sold in 1971 to Choo Choo Hilton and named Jack Jones. Current status unknown.

#2668 to PC #2668 reconfigured in 1969 to 108 seat commuter coach #2140 to CR #2140 to MNCR #2140 (1983??). Current status unknown.

#2669 to PC #2669 reconfigured in 1969 to 108 seat commuter coach #2144 to CR #2144 to MNCR #2144 (1983??). Current status unknown.

25 Cars, Pressed Steel, 1942, NYC Lot #2142:

Ordered in December 1940 and delivered between June and August 1942. 56 seat coaches.

#2670 scrapped in 1-1965.

#2671 scrapped in 5-1964.

#2672 scrapped in 1-1965.

#2673 scrapped in 5-1964.

#2674 scrapped in 5-1964.

#2675 scrapped in 1-1965.

#2676 scrapped in 5-1964.

#2677 sold in 1964 to Ringling Brothers. Current status unknown.

#2678 scrapped in 5-1964.

#2679 scrapped in 5-1964.

#2680 scrapped in 5-1964.

#2681 scrapped in 5-1964.

#2682 scrapped in 5-1964.

#2683 to MofW #X-23451, 4-1965. Current status unknown.

#2684 sold in 1964 to Ringling Brothers. Current status unknown.

#2685 sold in 1964 to Ringling Brothers. Current status unknown.

#2686 scrapped in 11-1964.

#2687 sold in 1964 to Ringling Brothers. Current status unknown.

#2688 scrapped in 4-1966.

#2689 scrapped in 5-1964.

#2690 scrapped in 5-1964.

#2691 scrapped in 5-1964.

#2692 scrapped in 5-1964.

#2693 to storage shed (on ground), Detroit Yard, 2-1965. Current status unknown.

#2694 scrapped in 5-1964.

Sources:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume Three: ACF - Other Builders" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1982)

3. Terry Link's NYC passenger car roster pages: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-PASS.htm

4. Pictures located via Jerry LaBoda's photo links website: http://passcarphotos.info/

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:25 am 
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#800xxx-series numbers for Rochester & Genesee Valley cars as follows:

#2566 Richard Tickner (#800206)

#2568 (#800184)

#2571 Hamilton Fish (#800191)

#2572 David B. Hill (#800193)

#2578 (#800202)

#2567 no #800xxx-series number listed.

Source:

1. Stan Garner's #800xxx-series car listings: http://www.movie-trains.com/pvlist.html

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:34 pm 
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Rainier Rails wrote:
11 Cars, P-S, Lot #6617, Plan #4069E, 1940, NYC Lot #2223:

Ordered in November 1939, delivered and placed in service between September and October 1940. Sold to NYC on 12/31/1945.

#10016 Imperial Emblem sold in 1962 to Jones Properties and renamed Alan Hardman. Current status unknown.


Found a picture of #10016 in NYC paint and lettering, with the name Imperial Emblem, in the consist of a SOU #4501 excursion in New Orleans in November 1978, noted by the photographer as owned by the New Orleans Chapter at the time. The Imperial Emblem is directly behind the #4501, and in front of SOU (ex-CofG) baggage-coach #726: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=258040 (John Sita photo)

Does anybody know the current status of the Imperial Emblem? Thanks in advance!

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:57 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
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Location: Morganton, N.C.
The Private Passenger Car Annual 1980 lists the car as being owned by the New Orleans Chapter with its history being Pullman to NYC to Jones Properties Alan Hardman, to Grueninger Tours Governor Oliver P. Morton, to NRHS. No info beyond that.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:59 pm 
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Thanks, Jerry, for the info on Imperial Emblem!

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:10 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
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Location: S.F. Bay Area
I have heard rumor that Coopersville & Marne #703 is none other than New York Central #2600.
Also that the unit is available and possibly to be scrapped.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:12 pm 
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Thanks, Robert, for the info!

Here's a photo taken by Chris Guenzler of the #703: http://www.trainweb.org/chris/coopmar52.JPG

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:26 am 
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robertmacdowell wrote:
I have heard rumor that Coopersville & Marne #703 is none other than New York Central #2600.
Also that the unit is available and possibly to be scrapped.


Here's the page for NYC #2600/CMRY #703 on Ozark Mountain Railcar: http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/detail.asp?id=1569&n=New-York-Central-Coach--NEW

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:54 am 

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This is a throwback to page two, but a group of the Empire State Express Coaches were leased to the New York, Susquehanna, and Western for a time in the early 1990s. They were given 500 series number with gold on maroon name and number plates.

http://www.rgvrrm.org/about/railroad/ese/index.htm

Some (all?) are visible in this video at the 3:00 mark- the fluted, stainless steel cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4polHKx0LNw

I'm trying to reconcile the NYS&W numbers, will post again when I am finished.

Joshua

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