Len, since you seem to like equations, try this one: 1979 minus 1975. No way is the answer 20. Not even in today's world of 'alternative facts'.

AFT had the 2101 from 3/75 (or a bit before) to it's donation to the B&O Museum in 9/79. By my math, not my best subject, that amounts to 4 1/2 years.

And you still didn't answer my question about Sam Freeman.

A bit off topic, but I have always wondered if 643 was the steam locomotive I saw housed inside an old brick building just east off Pittsburgh in the early '90s. I was a passenger on the Steel City Express pulled by C&O 2765 (NKP 765). After detraining passengers downtown, the train continued east for servicing and turning. During the layover, I was nosing around outside and looked through some broken windows of a brick building. Much to my surprise, there was a steam locomotive inside the building! Was it 643 or some other steamer? I wish I could remember more details, but perhaps someone can fill in the void. Thanks!

Looks nice! So at some point the locomotive moved from this location (insert name) to the current location.

The better question would be how did Mr. "Dampfmann" walk from (allegedly) downtown Pittsburgh to wherever this loco was stored them?

If the loco was in McKees Rocks at this point, either you were let off somewhere in McKees Rocks instead, they did a photo runby there, or you had a long walk (about 3 miles one way). A quick glance online says the trips ran from Akron to Station Square in Pittsburgh in August 1993.

Station Square DID have its own steam locomotive long ago, an 0-4-0T, but that was moved to nearby Sewickley in 1978, then sold to Age of Steam in Ohio in 2013.

And according to other accounts on this forum, the building 643 was stored in at McKees Rocks collapsed and/or was pulled down from around it where it stands now. . . .

Just by way of an update so far no takers on my wager offer, not even Steel City who says he's so confident that the engine will soon be on its way to a new home.

If I knew for sure that her move was a certainty I'd sure jump at the chance to get 5 to 1 on my money.

I'll keep you all in the loop.

ross Rowland

[quote="Alexander D. Mitchell IV"]The better question would be how did Mr. "Dampfmann" walk from (allegedly) downtown Pittsburgh to wherever this loco was stored them?

The answer is simple. I stayed on the train. (Although, walking a couple miles isn't beyond the scope of athletic conditioning. Allegedly.)

I was a guest of a private car owner and allowed to travel with the train to the location of its servicing and turning. While the locomotive was being serviced, we were permitted to leave our car. That's when I did some walking around.

I always thought the locomotive (2765/765) and train traveled east for servicing and turning, but maybe I am wrong. I also can't say for sure if the locomotive I saw in the brick building was indeed 643 and not another locomotive.

I was trying to clear up some foggy memories and reach out to the world wide web via RYPN for a little information. I guess I won't have a definitive answer unless someone who was also on the Steel City Express during its servicing stop chimes in with more details.

Oh No Wayne! Not your hat! You've had that a l-o-n-g time.
How would I recognize you at the WW&F?

Keith

I didn't shoot the video, but now I am intrigued. I'll have to take a look on YouTube. Maybe it will help jog my memory!

I take it this is the video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1f6LdlOO1g

I would have to agree with Mr. Rowland based just off of the behavior of those going at it. I've seen the 643, and the best option for it first and foremost would be to get another roof over its head. The elements will never be kind to any type of metal sitting outside. If it is in fact capped. and lubed multiple times a year as you state, I applaud the effort to at least keep it in a condition where moving parts have a harder time to fail or seize.

If in fact its not some crazed pipe dream to move the 643 soon, Id hope that all the logistics are planned accordingly. Wishing for the goodwill of others to get things done is a failure of thought, as it puts too much faith that parties such as CSX are willing to forego established policy based solely on the premise of goodwill triumphing policy. This is not to mention any other property owner if not CSX within the small stretch needed.

Also, Mr. Rowland may have failed with some business ventures in the past, but so did our president.(who based on a quip earlier in the thread, you support) You don't question his legitimacy to speak or lead based on failing a few times, so why question someone who has organized many rail-related trips or ventures for 50 years? Are you correct in, or successful with 100% of the things you do, Mr. Steel City?|

Finally, best of luck to make your "plan" if it is legitimate a reality. I encourage you to prove others wrong if you have the capability to do so with action instead of just words only. Your seemingly false narrative about some of the members of this board, though, makes me believe this is someone concerned about being right with words, not with their action.

Prove me and others wrong, most of us actually DO hope you can.

"Ok, I ask if I was allowed to post a few photos of this railroad I spoke about in my last posting.

"I'm still not allowed to say where it is, but I can post a few photos."

I can't identify all of the photo locations, but the ones I can pinpoint say this is Norfolk Southern's Ellsworth Secondary - possibly the most twisty railroad line in southwestern Pennsylvania. The northern portion of the line is loaded with curves in excess of 10 degrees - some as sharp as 16 degrees. Something like 20 years ago, I did a mini-study for Conrail to see if it might be possible to straighten out the worst sections. Yes, but only at great expense and significant environmental impact. Nothing was ever done. The branch is now out of service since the last coal mine closed.

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.

Monongahela to Cokeburg Junction, Pa. (just past Ellsworth).

I'll look up the CR and NS data on the line when I'm not late for work.

In those pictures that were posted, if they are of the line that Mr. Campbell has in mind, the curves looked pretty sharp. Can a large, rigid wheel based 2-10-4 make it around such curves?

More to the point, can 643 safely traverse the curves at track speed, without significantly damaging the track?

I just now found what I believe is the bridge in the provided photo: the Pigeon Creek Bridge, along Pa. 2023 near Redd's Mill Road, between Van Voorhis and Bentleyville, Pa.:

http://img2.jetphotos.net/photo/112294/

I can't guarantee this is the same bridge, but a four-panel short subdivided through Warren Truss railroad bridge of this size is extremely scarce. And all other details match perfectly.

The line, which runs/ran southwest from Monongahela to Ellsworth, Pa., has been embargoed since about 2010 when the 84 Mine up above Ellsworth shut down. The line took eleven miles to run a seven-mile straight distance, was restricted to 10-mph operation in both Conrail and NS days, and was restricted to four-axle power until CR/NS got radial-truck-equipped SD80MACs (a cult favorite among railfans in Pa. and elsewhere) and assigned four to serve the mine. Trains to and from the mine have occasionally rated pushers and/or locos on each end. Another section from the junction of the mine spur southwest to Mariana has been abandoned for a while; a section west to Ontario was abandoned in 1965.

Although I-70 and the Mon Valley Expressway are close by, and Pittsburgh and the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum are not far away, in relative terms this is sparsely-populated/traveled country, not exactly tourist country.

I think feigning ignorance about the line doesn't help the case that you know what you're talking about.