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 Post subject: NKP 759 and Steamtown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3716
Location: Maine
Totally speculative and not based in rumors or anything like them:

NKP 759 allegedly needs "relatively little" restorative work to bring her back into operating capability. Granted, she's really too large to be of practical service at Steamtown.

Suppose a carrier* wished to operate a locomotive for purposes of their own, on their own schedule. Would it be possible for them to:

A) Long-term lease 759 from the NPS?
B) Restore the locomotive to operating capability and take that as a legitimate tax deduction, as a contribution to Steamtown?
C) Operate the locomotive with the provision it remains property of the NPS?

Again, this is totally theoretical on my part, but it seems like with enough negotiating, no out of the realm of possibility.

*Not that they need it, but for the sake of argument, say R&BM, NS, CNR, CSX?

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 Post subject: Re: NKP 759 and Steamtown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:12 pm
Posts: 96
I dont have any answers for you, but I do have a question. Why would a railroad inquire about 759 when - 765 and her team already have a reputation of reliability, and make every effort needed meet the requirements of the host railroad? Heck didnt NS occasionally contract 765 to power employee excursions in the past?


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 Post subject: Re: NKP 759 and Steamtown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
Agreed. We have carded and ready locomotives sitting cold and only occasionally operated. Put them to productive work before investing in another roundhouse queen.

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 Post subject: Re: NKP 759 and Steamtown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:24 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Bucks County, PA
Richard Glueck wrote:
A) Long-term lease 759 from the NPS?
B) Restore the locomotive to operating capability and take that as a legitimate tax deduction, as a contribution to Steamtown?
C) Operate the locomotive with the provision it remains property of the NPS?


Depends - how much of the inevitable "government red-tape" do you want to deal with? If you were that interested in restoring/leasing a Berk, might it be easier to do it with the Age of Steam group? No gov't bureaucracies to deal with there...

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 Post subject: Re: NKP 759 and Steamtown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
There are other, older threads documenting 759, and I recall 759's condition is worse. Besides, time (obsolescence) and storage mean almost any locomotive needs work. Note the cost of bringing 611 back to service.

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 Post subject: Re: NKP 759 and Steamtown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:14 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2072
at this point I would rather see a differrent NKP steam brought back, like the 4-6-4 in St Louis. Well, another pipe dream, but I think Steamtown also has an NKP 4-6-0


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 Post subject: Re: NKP 759 and Steamtown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:38 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:13 pm
Posts: 398
Location: Baltimore. MD
If you own the railroad with the track that goes over the Nicholson Bridge, maybe they will give it to you for free!

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 Post subject: Re: NKP 759 and Steamtown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:16 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Northern WV
Has any "real" work other than cosmetic been done on #759 since being acquired by Steamtown. It looked pretty tired at the old Bellows Fall location 40 years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: NKP 759 and Steamtown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3716
Location: Maine
Some of my speculative questions have been addressed. The availability of 611, 765, and possibly 1225, taken into account, I believe 759 is not "worn out" in any manner. The three aforementioned locomotives have schedules and dates to meet. Beginning with 763 means digging deeper than 759. So to keep this on track, we're just addressing the original three questions:

A) Long-term lease 759 from the NPS?
B) Restore the locomotive to operating capability and take that as a legitimate tax deduction, as a contribution to Steamtown?
C) Operate the locomotive with the provision it remains property of the NPS?

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 Post subject: Re: NKP 759 and Steamtown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:00 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 709
Richard Glueck wrote:
Some of my speculative questions have been addressed. The availability of 611, 765, and possibly 1225, taken into account, I believe 759 is not "worn out" in any manner. The three aforementioned locomotives have schedules and dates to meet. Beginning with 763 means digging deeper than 759. So to keep this on track, we're just addressing the original three questions:

A) Long-term lease 759 from the NPS?

Why, when there are other privately owned steam locomotives available?

B) Restore the locomotive to operating capability and take that as a legitimate tax deduction, as a contribution to Steamtown?

Is Steamtown a 501c3? Is the NPS a 501c3? If the answers are no, this is a non-starter.

C) Operate the locomotive with the provision it remains property of the NPS?


How, where, why, with whose money, and under whose control?


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 Post subject: Re: NKP 759 and Steamtown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:32 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:46 pm
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dinwitty wrote:
at this point I would rather see a differrent NKP steam brought back, like the 4-6-4 in St Louis. Well, another pipe dream, but I think Steamtown also has an NKP 4-6-0


If you want to see a non-Berk NKP engine running, #624 is probably your best bet. I'm sure the FWRHS would welcome someone underwriting a full operational restoration beyond the cosmetic one they are currently planning.


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 Post subject: Re: NKP 759 and Steamtown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
Dick, you really need another locomotive to restore right now? You guys are doing a bang up job - don't split focus.

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 Post subject: Re: NKP 759 and Steamtown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:46 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
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Anyone who wants to support a Lima at Steamtown can reach out about a certain Pacific we are moving towards completion. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: NKP 759 and Steamtown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
Purely speculative! I am not looking for more than a single Pacific! I was posing a hypothetical question, trying to imagine a case for a locomotive in the Steamtowns collection to not be wasted as a hanger queen, especially if there was a company looking to undertake a complete restoration for their own purposes. Don't read too much into the question. How would a great locomotive, 759 being the example, get out and into some kind of regular operation? At one time, it was done by Ross, but Steamtowns was a private operation. Could a railroad wishing to run a locomotive for a couples of years, for whatever purposes, lease a specific heavy hauler from the NPS as along term locomotive? Could their investment be considered tax deductible?
I am not looking for a NKP loco specifically, nor Am I suggesting NESCO contemplate,such an undertaking. Sure, there are plenty of lease worthy locos out there 614 comes to mind, but that isn't what I'm interested in. This topic specifically inquires about a railroad undertaking lease of a locomotive, any locomotive, from the NPS, rebuilding or bringing it up to snuff, and making it work as both a tax deduction and publicity ideal.

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 Post subject: Re: NKP 759 and Steamtown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8353
Location: Baltimore, MD
One thing I have figured out over time is that agencies like the NPS and state museums, to avoid the appearance or practice of "cronyism," have instituted occasionally exhaustive policies and procedures intended to block "being taken advantage of" (i.e. "sweetheart deals" with favored individuals or companies). Such policies, for example, are why it is extremely doubtful/impossible that we'll see a PRR steamer liberated from the RR Museum of Pa. for operational restoration in the 21st century.

My gut feeling is that if someone with a track record of extensive revenue production and working with the NPS--say, Xanterra, which now owns and operates the Grand Canyon Railway--were to step forward with a well-outlined proposal to restore and operate a Steamtown steamer (at Scranton or elsewhere), they would at least be listened to, in part because they have experience with the NPS and "speak their language." Ditto Norfolk Southern or CSX. Some random group of railfans or an NRHS Chapter? Not so much.


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