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 Post subject: Was/is there a sighn/signeal for that?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:41 am 
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Location: MA
Was or is there any sign or signal for trolleys or any trains with overhead to tell the operator to cut power off and to resume power?


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 Post subject: Re: Was/is there a sighn/signeal for that?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:48 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
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Location: Back in NE Ohio
In the Northeast Corridor, the PRR, and continued by Amtrak and Conrail, there were signs near the end of the overhead that said something like "AC Motor Stop". I remember Pittsburgh trolleys had signage indicating which way the motorman would go if he approached a turnout with the power on or off. Apparently some systems had switches that would change direction depending on whether or not the car approached the switch with car drawing power or coasting.


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 Post subject: Re: Was/is there a sighn/signeal for that?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:50 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:27 pm
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Location: Milford,Mass
Hi
Watching some videos of Trolleys, they had to obey the same rules of the road, as cars.Dealing with traffic signals. Now as for their own right of way, they must of had signals of some kind.


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 Post subject: Re: Was/is there a sighn/signeal for that?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:59 am 
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The MTA has a "costing" sign Image that I assume means to cut power but I can't seem to find a resume sign or other examples.


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 Post subject: Re: Was/is there a sighn/signeal for that?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
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In Washington, DC, where conduit was used, streetcar operators followed various markings painted on the street for cut-outs, coast, power switches, etc. In overhead wire sections signs were often used. Sorry that I do not have any photos with examples.

Wesley


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 Post subject: Re: Was/is there a sighn/signeal for that?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:41 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
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Location: Northern Illinois
IRM used to use little round metal badges, painted red with a white star, hung on the span wire where an insulated wire break was hung. The intention was to make the location of the insulator apparent to the operator, who knew by rule that he was supposed to coast as the pole passed through. I don't recall which property they came from.

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: Was/is there a sighn/signeal for that?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:19 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
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PaulWWoodring wrote:
I remember Pittsburgh trolleys had signage indicating which way the motorman would go if he approached a turnout with the power on or off. Apparently some systems had switches that would change direction depending on whether or not the car approached the switch with car drawing power or coasting.


I also recall those, and you are correct. What I don't recall is whether that applied only to the trolley overhead, or did it also apply to the switch points? Seems like it would be a bit sketchy to have the points throw at the last moment, were they controlled separately? If the trolley wire point didn't throw correctly the only thing that happens is you'd de-wire, which isn't a big deal as long as you don't tear down the overhead when it happens.


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 Post subject: Re: Was/is there a sighn/signeal for that?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:52 pm
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Location: Pittsburgh
Attached is a photo of a Pittsburgh Railways Co. "Power Off" sign next to a section insulator at Pennsylvania Trolley Museum.

There were no similar signs at Cheatham electric switch contactors since, depending on which way you wanted the switch to throw, you might be coasting or pulling power. In Pittsburgh, the protocol was coast for the straight and pull power for the diverging. At PTM, we reversed the protocol so as to better adapt to the way our railway is configured.

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.


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PowerOff.jpg
PowerOff.jpg [ 235.48 KiB | Viewed 683 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Was/is there a sighn/signeal for that?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:26 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
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Location: Northern Illinois
Bobharbison wrote:
PaulWWoodring wrote:
I remember Pittsburgh trolleys had signage indicating which way the motorman would go if he approached a turnout with the power on or off. Apparently some systems had switches that would change direction depending on whether or not the car approached the switch with car drawing power or coasting.


I also recall those, and you are correct. What I don't recall is whether that applied only to the trolley overhead, or did it also apply to the switch points? Seems like it would be a bit sketchy to have the points throw at the last moment, were they controlled separately? If the trolley wire point didn't throw correctly the only thing that happens is you'd de-wire, which isn't a big deal as long as you don't tear down the overhead when it happens.


You obviously don't remember Lee Circle on the St. Charles line in New Orleans. The track plan was like a figure eight, in that while the double track was right-hand running, the line from Lee Circle to Canal St. was single track on two different streets, a circle in the clockwise direction. ALL cars, both inbound and outbound, traversed the same fifty feet of track on one side of the circle with a power switch that decided whether the car was going to Canal St. or around the circle outbound. The switch was one of those power/coast set ups, and seemed to work just fine, hundreds of times a day. The speed was slow, and the contactor was back far enough that the motorman could visually confirm the switch was lined before he was on it.

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: Was/is there a sighn/signeal for that?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:42 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:45 pm
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Google streetview of the cut off medallion at McKinney Avenue Transit Authority's M-Line streetcar on St. Paul crossing Woodall Rogers Freeway:

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7885924 ... 6656?hl=en

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Andy Nold


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 Post subject: Re: Was/is there a sighn/signeal for that?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:31 am
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Location: Northern Illinois
PaulWWoodring wrote:
In the Northeast Corridor, the PRR, and continued by Amtrak and Conrail, there were signs near the end of the overhead that said something like "AC Motor Stop".


Those "AC Motor Stop" signs, mostly found on yard tracks, were made of sheet metal with dots punched out to form the letters. A main track example at THORN interlocking is here:

https://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics/05-11-27_THORN/THORN-47sw+AC-Motor-Stop.jpg

More in line with the initial query were the "Phase Break" signs and signals on the PRR main tracks. The latter, pictured here, look like a position light signal with no central bulb:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mattblaze/4509479059

When lit, it indicates a short section of catenary is de-energized because the substations feeding the sections on either side are out-of-phase. A more complete discussion can be found here:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,2166773


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 Post subject: Re: Was/is there a sighn/signeal for that?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
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Location: Southern California
Larry Lovejoy wrote:
Attached is a photo of a Pittsburgh Railways Co. "Power Off" sign next to a section insulator at Pennsylvania Trolley Museum.
Other traction properties also posted such signs at section insulators.

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Brian Norden


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 Post subject: Re: Was/is there a sighn/signeal for that?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:47 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am
Posts: 11
RCD wrote:
Was or is there any sign or signal for trolleys or any trains with overhead to tell the operator to cut power off and to resume power?


The attached picture is from the SEPTA Route 15 on Girard Avenue just east of the Market Frankford Elevated Station. I imagine the "0" means no power over the insulating break.

Brian


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Trolley Power Off Signs 2.jpg
Trolley Power Off Signs 2.jpg [ 159.13 KiB | Viewed 350 times ]
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