As many of you know, Britain's (arguably) most famous steam locomotive has had a checkered past in private ownership during the preservation era (thought is has run quite a bit). The last private owners went bankrupt in a scheme to make a profit off the old gal, and she was sold at auction this spring to erase their debts.

GVA Grimley’s Manchester-based plant and machinery team has successfully sold the Flying Scotsman. The most famous locomotive in the world was sold on behalf of Flying Scotsman Plc, for a sum of £2.2 million.

With international interest in bidding ont he 4472, she was the subject of much outcry to keep here at "home." The National Railway Museum (NRM) put on a hughe two month public campaign and combined private funds with a national lottery grant (remember, they use their lottery to fund preservation), and help from Virgin owner Richard Branson to win the auction.

The total sale was over 2.2 million pounds. Branson put up 365,000 pounds and the lottery contributed around 1.8 million.

As part of the public awareness campaign, the NRM promised to keep 4472 operational on the main line and to bring her around to local tourist roads.

Interstingly, the sale included a spare boiler, with the notion that one boiler could be made ready to replace the other, and so on, at the end of each boiler ticket. That way, she'd never be out of service for very long. I think a spare tender was also in the deal.

So, a rich man, the national museum and the government's preservation lottery fund worked together to raise a ton of dough to save an operational steamer and keep her running for generations to come.

Wow.

Rob

trains@robertjohndavis.com

A very recent issue of "Railway Magazine" (I'm thinking the May issue, which given American distribution of British hobby magazines means that it's probably STILL on the stands at selected Borders/B&N/hobby shops) had a cover story which detailed the frantic behind-the-scenes fundraising effort made, including some rather extensive conditional grants, some back-up schemes/plans, etc. Remember, they had all of two months or so to pull this off--imagine if someone said "Raise $2 million or we'll sell off SP 4449 to the highest bidder!" and gave you two months.......

One figure your "total" above doesn't include is a good £60,000+ raised by private individual donations, as well as over £350,000 in donations and grants made by other parties such as Yorkshire newspapers. An initial £365,000 was raised through the NRM's public appeal and, as he specifically pledged, Sir Richard Branson matched this £365,000 on behalf of the Virgin Group. The £60,000 raised by the public raised the total to £790,000 atop the £1.8 million from the Heritage Lottery Fund. All in all, the pot of money actually exceeded the funds necessary to purchase the locomotive by nearly £400,000, creating a nice reserve to dedicate to the loco's eventual overhaul.

Unfortunately, as one can see from a detailed examination of the accounting, this effort pretty well puts the bold-faced lie to the concept of individual donations being able to "preserve" anything of this size--much as, say, public-television stations guilt-trip us with pledge-a-thons for what amounts to only 20% of their operating budget). It really IS all about corporate and government help and "angels" supplementing private individual donations and sweat equity. I would dare to say that any effort that attempts to operate solely by the donation box will quickly find that the donations don't even pay the rent, let alone the upkeep and operation. Thankfully, LNER 4472's extraordinary popularity--second only to "Thomas"--made the HLF grant a reality, although it could be argued that her extreme popularity and celebrity also grotesquely inflated the asking price to boot. (I can't see a hypothetical "anonymous" operable GWR King or LMS Duchess being offered for more than £700,000-£1 million, and even that might be inflated.)

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

So it is now, for the first time, in the hands of a Museum? What is the current outlook on the "steam scene" in the UK now, how many main line Locomotives are operational?
thanks
-Justin Franz

qcmrs18@yahoo.com

You are right, Sandy. I haven't seen the post-sale issue of Heritage Railway yet (my British mag of choice), but I do take issue that this proves individuals are out of the picture.

If the NRM had not gotten involved, the 4472 would have most likely gone to an indiviual... as that's who the other bidderes were rumoured to be. I have read several opinion pieces from across the pond that expressed concern that the NRM bid actually jacked the price up as much as 800,000 pounds over what a single-winner would have paid.



trains@robertjohndavis.com

> So it is now, for the first time, in the
> hands of a Museum? What is the current
> outlook on the "steam scene" in
> the UK now, how many main line Locomotives
> are operational?
> thanks

Generally positive, although there have been some recent problems, to wit (all from the July 2004 issue of Railway Magazine):

*English, Welsh & Scottish (one of the major franchisees) has undertaken to ban steam doubleheaders on the main line, calling them too problematic. New mainline steam rules for EWS trackage will include all-air-braked trains, reduced support crews, restriction to only a certain group of large locos, and only on certain core routes.

*Locos either booked for mainline operation at speed for the month of June include SR 4-6-2 34067 Tangmere, GWR 3440 City of Truro (which supposedly hit 100 mph a century ago this year!), BR 4-6-0 73096, LNER 4472, LMS 4-6-2 6233, BR "Super Pacific" 71000 Duke of Gloucester (whose restoration from a cannibalized scrapyard hulk, including recasting the poppet-valve cylinders and chest, is detailed in this issue), GWR 4965 and 4-6-0 5029, and SR Pacific 34016.

Also operable on main lines in the past few weeks or scheduled to return to such service by September: BR Mogul 76079 and the two or three steamers holding down the "Jacobite" Fort William-Mallaig specials.

In addition, there are several excursion lines that are so massive and well-engineered that they may as well be considered main lines--Severn Valley, K&WV, North York Moors, etc. In fact, one of them, the Great Central, IS a double-track former main line. About the only such operations we have here are the Ohio Central and Grand Canyon.

The arsenal of *potential* mainline steam is, of course, very malleable, subject to current condition, overhaul, certification, etc. The current rail network franchisees are now becoming very demanding of the calibre of performance of any steamers permitted on their lines, for the same reasons as American companies--reliability and its impact on other traffic. But suffice it to say that the "reserve" of truly mainline-capable steamers in Britain exceeds 50, maybe even exceeds 100. This would include a slew of Stanier "Black Fives", an LNER A2 Pacific, at least three LNER A4 Pacifics, a couple LMS Pacifics, a slew of GWR "King" and "Castle" 4-6-0s, perhaps a dozen or more SR Bullied Pacifics, the still-abuilding-from-scratch A1 Pacific "Tornado", and selected BR locos such as 9F 2-10-0's, 4-6-0s, etc.

And all of this on an island smaller than Illinois and Indiana combined, or about half the size of California, or about the size of North and South Carolina combined.

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

There is an article by Andrew Scott, Head of the National Railway Museum in the June RAILWAY MAGAZINE. He outlines on a day-to-day basis what they had to do to acquire the engine. (I picked my copy up at the Borders in downtown Ann Arbor last Week)


ptrmgtsvc@earthlink.net

> So it is now, for the first time, in the
> hands of a Museum? What is the current
> outlook on the "steam scene" in
> the UK now, how many main line Locomotives
> are operational?
> thanks
> -Justin Franz
I read through a link in the flimsies that the 4472 will be used for 3 round trips a day, 3 days a week excursions betweem York and Scarborough. I was fortunate enough to be in York last summer when they were running the 'Harry Potter' locomotive and trainset on the same run. Also used was a 2-8-0 if I recall correctly. The trainset is about 8 cars, and speeds of 50-60 MPH are necesary to keep the schedule. York is a treat for many reasons, not the least of which is the incredibly busy Victorian train station and the National Railway museum.
It's possible to ride the "Scotsman" to Scarborough, bus from Scarborough to Whitby, take the diesel train back to Grosmont, take a regularly scheduled steam train to Pickering on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway while experiencing 2-3 meets with their other steam hauled trains in 17 miles, and bus back to York, all in one day. And if you're lucky the NYMR driver that has the steam lorry will have it parked outside the station in Pickering.

G. Cook

gorcook@charter.net

> There is an article by Andrew Scott, Head of
> the National Railway Museum in the June
> RAILWAY MAGAZINE. He outlines on a
> day-to-day basis what they had to do to
> acquire the engine. (I picked my copy up at
> the Borders in downtown Ann Arbor last Week)

It is a good article that shows the nail-bitting that goes on when trying to arrange the large funding required. They had less than a work week to put togeather the grant application to the National Heritage Memeorial Fund.

The NHMR is not the Lottary Heritage Fund. It is administered by the same people; but, the funding comes from the government not from the public lottary. The NHMF is focused on acquiring historic material at risk of export as a memorial to the dead of both world wars. The NHMF is also better able to make quick decisions in an emergency. As it was, it took nearly a month from the application to the granting of the funds. In the meantime the NRM was working to acquire funding from other sources (friends and public).

They picked up a large grant (500,000 pounds)from a regional Yorksire board that provides money to develope tourism. It feels that having the engine at York, or operating from there, will inhance tourism. The NRM will use this money for the ongoing maintenance.

Picked up my copy of The Railway Magazine this Sunday at a Borders at Montclair CA. Find that they usually get it the second week of the month on the cover.

Brian Norden

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the correction on the funds. I need to shop around for a new British mag dealer, as the guy in Penn Station is easily 8 weeks behind the cover date.

What strikes me is how many of us RYPN regulars are reading UK steam rags! I really enjoy it, even with the language barrier.

Rob

> It is a good article that shows the
> nail-bitting that goes on when trying to
> arrange the large funding required. They had
> less than a work week to put togeather the
> grant application to the National Heritage
> Memeorial Fund.

> The NHMR is not the Lottary Heritage Fund.
> It is administered by the same people; but,
> the funding comes from the government not
> from the public lottary. The NHMF is focused
> on acquiring historic material at risk of
> export as a memorial to the dead of both
> world wars. The NHMF is also better able to
> make quick decisions in an emergency. As it
> was, it took nearly a month from the
> application to the granting of the funds. In
> the meantime the NRM was working to acquire
> funding from other sources (friends and
> public).

> They picked up a large grant (500,000
> pounds)from a regional Yorksire board that
> provides money to develope tourism. It feels
> that having the engine at York, or operating
> from there, will inhance tourism. The NRM
> will use this money for the ongoing
> maintenance.

> Picked up my copy of The Railway Magazine
> this Sunday at a Borders at Montclair CA.
> Find that they usually get it the second
> week of the month on the cover.

> Brian Norden


trains@robertjohndavis.com

> I read through a link in the flimsies that
> the 4472 will be used for 3 round trips a
> day, 3 days a week excursions betweem York
> and Scarborough. I was fortunate enough to
> be in York last summer when they were
> running the 'Harry Potter' locomotive and
> trainset on the same run. Also used was a
> 2-8-0 if I recall correctly. The trainset is
> about 8 cars, and speeds of 50-60 MPH are
> necesary to keep the schedule.

I know this is a rhetorical question, and has been debated quite a bit lately, but isn't this what Steamtown should be doing? Can't we learn anything from our British cousins? If they can do it, we should be able to do it as well.

edm5970@earthlink.net

> I know this is a rhetorical question, and
> has been debated quite a bit lately, but
> isn't this what Steamtown should be doing?
> Can't we learn anything from our British
> cousins? If they can do it, we should be
> able to do it as well.

Sure, no problem. Just:

1) nationalize the entire American railroad network under one government-administrated (or MIS-administrated) agency (or better yet, start the tourist-train tradition while the system is still nationalized, as in the case of the Scarboro' Spa Express);

2) set American taxation levels to match British taxation levels to pay for it all (start with a 17.5% value-added tax and an extra dollar or two per gallon on petrol/gasoline.....);

3) find a plethora of regular freight and passenger traffic to share the infrastructure costs of the line you intend to operate over (and remember to slot your weekend trains between regular traffic);
3a) for that reason, operate the trains at mainline track speeds of 40-60 mph;

4) put a large, historic city at one end of the line (think Charleston, Boston, Quebec City, or Philadelphia, not Scranton) and an attractive seaside resort at the other end of the line (think Savannah, Cape May, or Cape Cod, not the Delaware Water Gap);

5) Replace the litigation-friendly, lawsuit-happy, insurance-expensive, victimization-promoting environment of the USA with a hardened, cynical sense of personal responsibility and courts willing to assess plaintiffs the expenses of the defendants in the case of frivolous lawsuits, as in the UK.

Seemple, no? <;-D


LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

> Sure, no problem. Just:

> 1) nationalize the entire American railroad
> network under one government-administrated
> (or MIS-administrated) agency (or better
> yet, start the tourist-train tradition while
> the system is still nationalized, as in the
> case of the Scarboro' Spa Express);

Um, the UK network is de-nationalized now, no? Would one then have to then denationalize after naturalizing it to get the "full-Monty?"

TJ

tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

Tracks owned by the government, operating rights contracted to private industry. I am given to understand there may be some structural difficulties regarding this operating arrangement even in the UK. I seriously question whether we have the cultural philosophy to pursue it here on a national scale, although some public entities are saving lines threatened by abandonment and contracting them to shortline operators.

dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

I took out a subscribtion of Heritage Railway with a friend of mine so we both get a chance to read it and it cuts the price in half. It is sent airmail and arrives about three days after it is published.

Richard

> Hi Brian,

> Thanks for the correction on the funds. I
> need to shop around for a new British mag
> dealer, as the guy in Penn Station is easily
> 8 weeks behind the cover date.

> What strikes me is how many of us RYPN
> regulars are reading UK steam rags! I really
> enjoy it, even with the language barrier.

> Rob

I Just got back from the book store where a got the "new issue" :-/ (aka: the March issue) of Heritage Railway. Never saw it before, but its a realy nice magazine, sorta wish we something like that here in the US. Really intresting to see how diffrent Steam preservation is on both sides of the pond. There is also a article on the future of main line steam, seems like we may not be alone. May have to start getting this magazine more often.

-Justin Franz

> I took out a subscribtion of Heritage
> Railway with a friend of mine so we both get
> a chance to read it and it cuts the price in
> half. It is sent airmail and arrives about
> three days after it is published.

> Richard


qcmrs18@yahoo.com