The D&RGW and W.T. Carter Bros. Lumber are two other railroads > that had large percentages of their steam > locomotives preserved.

Actually, the Rio Grande's preservation policy was about as stingy as that of the New York Central. Al Perlman headed it before going to the NYC. The last time I checked there was only one standard gauge D&RGW steam locomotive preserved; a 2-8-0 at the Colorado Railroad Museum if my memory is correct.

All of the other surviving steamers are narrow gauge. Their survival was not due to any philanthopic foresight on the part of Rio Grande management, but due to the necessity to continue to operate the narrow gauge lines as required by the ICC up until 1968. They were forced to operate the Silverton train until its sale to Charles Bradshaw in 1981.

Had they been able to discontinue the Silverton train, and the rest of the narrow gauge network sooner, the number of preserved D&RGW steamers would be substantially less than it is.

kevin.r.gillespie@verizon.net

As a local to Southwest Virginia myself {I live about 20 miles from Pulaski, but I know next to nothing about THAT area} I have heard stories about the engines and an old passenger cars, Rumor was they where painted in the VERY OLD green scheme .

I have made trips to Pulaski to find this junkyard and have struck out, if someone could email me or post an street address of this junkyard, I can go their to take digital photo’s and post them within a few days!!! PLEASE HELP ME!!! Those Locomotive “diminutive they may be” have been the subject of much searching for me!!

AS for a place to run, let me put forth the Former N&W Saltville branch!! That is owned by the town of Saltville near Marion Virginia, they have a few miles of unused track, but that point is moot because Saltville also has 2 other steam locomotives that are in horrible shape {Rumor has it that they use a diesel to pull a couple of cabooses and some “box coaches “ a few times a year, I have seen their small diesel “SW1” I believe it is an SW1,and their outfit, it would be best described as “Shabby” the loco looks good though with its snazzy “Saltville railroad” logo ,

I am also thinking time is ticking on the railroad itself; to say a “tie renewal” is in order would be an understatement, the NS last used in the mid 80’s and the line has slumbered since in lonely neglect, the line was closed due to a sinkhole near the jctn with the mainline, and is NOT connected to the nation network, the sink hole was due to mining in the area,

http://www.saltvilleva.com/steam_trains.htm

a while back the town was DUPED by someone promising to “rebuild” the steam locomotives for about 2,500 apiece, the town paid up and the “fellow” was GONE, they seem not to realize the realities of running a railroad sadly

I used to have the links to local newspaper stories about the GLORIOUS rebirth and the "Money saving" they was getting for the 2,500 doller rebuild.I was planing on MAKEING CERTAIN I was a LONGGGGGGGG way from the town, just in case they was able to build ANY pressure in that boiler!! I used to have links to the newspaper articals,but they only bring up 404's now

Several years ago I believe that “Spencer Shops” NCTM, was wanting to lease the Locomotives and rebuild them, but the town would not hear of it, “so I was told” because they would need to leave the town

Andy J

> .............. wasn't there a serious
> proposal being floated by local
> government/tourism officials for a
> tourist-oriented excursion operation
> operating out of either Pulaski or Radford?

> Can you say "opportunism"? Not
> that I blame the guy, but.........


andyj@wythenet.com

Hello

I'm hoping some of the folks involved with Steamtown in the days before Scranton might be able to help me out with a few questions. I have a number of old Steamtown postcards, and I'm trying to organize a general chronology.

1). I'm under the impression that the yellow wooden coaches were first excursion trainset, is this correct?

2). When did the CNJ coaches arrive, were the wooden coaches retired upon their arrival?

3). What was the operating lifespan of the B&M Mountainier Diner at Steamtown?

4). Roughly, what years did the CP 1278 masquerade as the 127?

5). One of the CP pacifics (1246?) was decked out as a Rutland engine, any time frame?

6). When CNR 89 ran, did it first have a low headlight and then have the headlight mounted high? I have postcards of it in both configurations.

7). What year did the B&M 3713 go to the Boston Museum of Science?

8). When did the CP Pacifics go from "Green Mountain" lettering to thie other paint schemes, was this upon Blount's passing?

I realize this is some obscure stuff, but maybe Howard or J. David (or anyone else for that matter) might be able to help out here. I do appreicate any help whatsoever.

Dave Crosby


bing@epix.net

> Hi
> I was talking to Gary Grey and he was
> telling me that the wooden Boxcars which
> were converted to crew cars have as much
> historical value as the Saddle Tank Engines.
> the wood is in very bad shape but the Steel
> frame is intact so the only thing necessary
> would be to rebuild the wooden parts. The
> pther car was a N&W Combine car which
> has been scrapped.
> Andrew Martin

So, what kind of boxcars? I still have a pair of complete USRA double sheathed boxcar doors and all their hardware a couple miles from my home, but they'l be gone next spring, I'm sure.

> TWVRPS


dstorzek@elnet.com

I'll take these in order, and it will be "off the top of the head"....

> Hello

> I'm hoping some of the folks involved with
> Steamtown in the days before Scranton might
> be able to help me out with a few questions.
> I have a number of old Steamtown postcards,
> and I'm trying to organize a general
> chronology.

> 1). I'm under the impression that the yellow
> wooden coaches were first excursion
> trainset, is this correct?

YES

> 2). When did the CNJ coaches arrive, were
> the wooden coaches retired upon their
> arrival?

CNJ coaches were unloaded by CNJ starting about 1965-66; I recall them showing up at Steamtown by about 1966. There were some added in the 1970-73 era, as I recall.

> 3). What was the operating lifespan of the
> B&M Mountainier Diner at Steamtown?

Not sure, but it was pretty much parked and didn't operate by 1969. It was more of a fixture on trains at Keene, NH.

> 4). Roughly, what years did the CP 1278
> masquerade as the 127?

1278 was put into service in early 1966 as 127. The work included changing the Elesco coil-type FW heater to the earlier bundle-type, reportedly because FNB like the appearance "better". His plan was to renumber all the G5s to 120-series numbers-- "124, 127, 129". In 1973, 127 went to D&H's Colonie Shops to be fitted out as "D&H 653", for the D&H's 150th anniversary events. The 1278 re-emerged the following spring (1974).

> 5). One of the CP pacifics (1246?) was
> decked out as a Rutland engine, any time
> frame?

Yes, it was 1246 that became "Rutland 82" in December 1973, for a doubleheader with D&H 653, to Rutland and return. It also went back to CPR livery in 1974.

> 6). When CNR 89 ran, did it first have a low
> headlight and then have the headlight
> mounted high? I have postcards of it in both
> configurations.

Don't know. I've only seen photos of high headlight 89 at Steamtown.

> 7). What year did the B&M 3713 go to the
> Boston Museum of Science?

1969.

> 8). When did the CP Pacifics go from
> "Green Mountain" lettering to thie
> other paint schemes, was this upon Blount's
> passing?

1246 was lettered "GREEN MOUNTAIN" from its start of service in mid-1970 until it became "RUT 82" in Dec. 1973. It was owned by GMRC until it and 1293 were sold to Steamtown Foundation in mid-1973. 1293 had never been lettered GMRC. 1278 (as 127) was lettered "Monadnock, Steamtown & Northern" during the 1966-67 era (HICO and NYNH&H trips), and was simply "Steamtown USA" during the Feb. 1968 HICO trip. I suspect 1278 was never owned by GMRC.

So, hope this all helps.

> I realize this is some obscure stuff, but
> maybe Howard or J. David (or anyone else for
> that matter) might be able to help out here.
> I do appreicate any help whatsoever.

> Dave Crosby



hpincus@mindspring.com

I am collecting anumbered set of steamtown post cards from the Vermont years. Send me an e-mail if you would like to see the list of what I have found so far. It might help answer some of your questions.

Ted

ted_miles@nps.gov

(And a personal peeve - save us from saddletank pulling a Streamliner coach and caboose long a weedy, almost abandoned

branch, and calling itself a "Museum of Railroading.")

I have to agree here, so my proposal is to buy the 0-4-0's and apply skyline shrouds to them. The continuity with the stainless steel fluted coach is far more authentic!


glueck@maine.edu

> 2). When did the CNJ coaches arrive, were
> the wooden coaches retired upon their
> arrival?

>CNJ coaches were unloaded by CNJ starting about 1965-66; I recall them showing up at Steamtown by about 1966. >There were some added in the 1970-73 era, as I recall.

Additionally, most of the first batch of CNJ cars ended up on a pier in Boston for some project that never panned out. Just north of Anthony's restaurant. I suspect this happened sometime in the early 70's, as there was not enough room at Steamtown for all of these cars plus all of the Long Island cars that became the Bicentenial Train.

SZuidervee@aol.com

Whatever happened to those coaches that were stored on Northern Avenue in Boston? I worked for a company located on Sleeper St. mid to late 70's, we could walk across the vacant lot behind our building and see them. There were at least 7, maybe 8 of them and they were there for years and years.

The entire area is nearly unrecognizable today.


SJHussar@aol.com

I assume you have tried the obvious and contacted Backshop and Strasburg?

dave


irondave@bellsouth.net

As good as this sounds, these projects sometimes have a way of dying out pretty quick once people find out all that's involved. While I believe that volunteers really can make a difference to such locomotives, they do need some guidance on what to do and not to do. Proper cosmetic restoration of a steam locomotive is more than a "boy scouts with paint brushes" project. It is incredibly dirty, difficult and sometimes dangerous, and can take several years if done mainly with volunteer labor. With that in mind, I personally hope someone with the proper credentials in our field will get involved, at least as a consultant. For a novice group, it would be money well spent.

ryarger@rypn.org

> 1). I'm under the impression that the yellow
> wooden coaches were first excursion
> trainset, is this correct?

The Yellow wooden Fleet was used out of Keene to Westmoreland, also earlier with a short time operation of #47. Later ran out of North Walpole south, then to the Bellows Falls location.

> 3). What was the operating lifespan of the
> B&M Mountainier Diner at Steamtown?

Believed it was used while in New Hampshire, possibly early in Vermont

> 4). Roughly, what years did the CP 1278
> masquerade as the 127?

127 made it's first mainline run in 1966 on the first High Iron excursion from Jersey City to Jim Thorpe, Pa. It wore a Steamtown emblem on the tender at the time. It also double headed with Strasburg's #90 on a later trip. It also had helper service from CNJ FM Trainmasters.

> 6). When CNR 89 ran, did it first have a low
> headlight and then have the headlight
> mounted high? I have postcards of it in both
> configurations.

Early 1965 #89 came out of the North Walpole shops with a high mounted (Great Northern Style) headlight, a shop made round number plate center of smoke box. There was a special run from "Riverside" to Rutland using the Wooden Yellow Fleet. Time was short so it wore only a stenciled "GMR" on the tender.

> 7). What year did the B&M 3713 go to the
> Boston Museum of Science?

Recall seeing it in Boston in 1974

Keith

cagney9@att.net

The 89's headlight was high during early years of Steamtown, then put back to the proper CN location, possibly after Blount's death in 1967. It was in the latter state when I moved east in August '68. If I recall, the bell had been moved to the front of the smokebox also.

89 w/ high headlight
ryarger@rypn.org

Hello All

A thousand thanks, I knew Howard, Steve, Bob et all would come through for me. Now if anyone has an extra postcard of the NKP 759 exiting the Nay Aug tunnel in 1971.....

Dave Crosby

bing@epix.net

> No they can't.

> The essential nature of the saddletanker is
> that they are so ugly they are cute - much
> like the average alleycat. You could put,
> for example, Marty Knox in an evening gown
> but it doesn't make him Gweneth Paltrow.
> Better yet, dont.

> 0-4-0Ts can and do carry passengers and
> provide entertainment and education to the
> public at relatively affordable and
> maintainable cost. GOAT burn about 220
> gallons of crankcase squeezings from cold
> start to shut down at the end of a LONG day.
> What does the 4-8-4 burn just to fire up?

Dave:

Just exactly what do you mean by "crankcase squeezings"?

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

> These little, approachable and personable
> tankers may be the only reasonable option
> for living steam at many institutions.
> Celebrate them and have fun with them for
> what they are - honest buiders of the
> economic strength of the USA.

> dave


midlandblb@cs.com