I am going to come back to the Keilty references (see my 2005 citation above). His working definition of the 'doodlebugs' was as single, self-powered rail motorcars that with some exception may have had single trailers -- though through the books photos showed some with upwards of 4-5 trailers (musta' been in the flatlands). One of the smallest he covered in the volumes wasn't much bigger than a Fairmont A-4 motorcar, being taller than it was long.

He actually separated the RDCs out from the others--writing a separate volume on their origins, range, etc.

It would seem to me that the 'doodlebug' term had as much to do with the situation/application/timetable for the equipment as with the equipment itself. In a hypothetical situation, if you took UPs M-10000 and on a run from SLC to LA had it stop at Tooele, Tintic, Lynndyl, Delta, etc. together with flagstops for whatever farmer's son wanted to board and 'ride into town'--it would be a 'doodlebug'. However, making the run with one stop at Las Vegas and then LA, would hardly be the definition of a 'doodlebug' though it wasn't much bigger than those 'bugs' with multiple trailers.

Then what about working with a definition that was based on crew-size. Doodlebugs were defined as much by the minimal crew/labor force needed to operate them. IIRC, there were RDCs that had lounges and food facilities for the comfort/needs of the passengers and all requiring a larger crew for the run.

Then, where do the various Zephyrs fall in this continuum?

Rambling thoughts--or would you say "mental doodling"

sc 'doc' lewis

Don't forget California Western's fleet of famous Skunk Motor Cars. The Cal Western still operates the M100 and M300 from Ft.Bragg to Willits, California. The Pacific Locomotive Association owns and operates the California Western M200 on the Niles Canyon Railway on a regular basis. All three were originally gas engine powered but have been coverted to diesel over the years. All three are neat one of a kind pieces of equipment.

www.ncry.org

Also the Delaware & Ulster in Arkville NY has former New York Central M405.

B. Allan

Of the actual survivors, and outside of the LV models used by Sperry, how many are used on a "regular basis?"

I know W&W uses their 4662 almost weekly, for Charters, Ride & Dine Dinner trains and weekend (usually Saturdays) excursions and the CW uses theirs, as Alan mentioned, on a daily basis... but what other ones are used regularly?

I had always wanted to see the one at Travel Town completed and operated...has that happened?

Also, what number is the PRR car in Michigan and where is it located/owned by?....never knew of it.

Everyone,

The M100 came from the Morehead and North Fork Railroad.

The M&NF purchased it in 1926 from The Edwards Car Co. and sold it to the California Western in 1934. It has been modified heavily but the pilot is still the same.

I find it interesting thel ocal courthouse records still show the purchase and the payments for this car by the M&NF.

I am considering building a 1/8th scale model for it to go with my railroad.

Would anyone have any old photos of this car running on the California Western before modification? These would be helpful in the building process.

Thanks,

JD, Johnson, Morehead and North Fork Railroad Historian

The East Broad Top's M-1 is not only extant, but running with it's original Brill gas engine and Westinghouse generator.

If I remember correctly, the pennsy car in Michigan is number 4668, and is owned by Clint Jones.

One doodlebug that operates regularly is the rebuilt Edwards car in Donnellson, IA on the Fort Madison Farmington and Western. I think this was an ex CB&Q car.

Dan remembers the PRR 4668 correctly, but I believe that said doodlebug was last reported at the Illinios Railway Museum, and may have been scrapped.

The doodlebug I believe Clint Jones had was supposedly a former CB&Q car, and was last "seen" when the shed holding it and Jones' C&NW 4-6-0 175 collapsed under a heavy snow years ago (maybe decades); I believe that doodlebug may be part of the enigmatic, elusive "warehouse" collection in the Escanaba, Michigan region, along with a Soo line passenger train, at least one steamer, the two ex-NYC/D&H/E&LS Baldwin "Sharks", and a bunch of other things, including possibly a Baldwin Centipede, a PRR T1, a NYC Hudson, and/or the wreckage from "Area 51" near Roswell, NM.......... >;-)

I believe the M200 at Niles was originally purchased by the Trona RR and used as a "school bus." They sold it to Cal Western after short time.

A JG Brill M-55 from the Death Valley RR has been restored to operation at the Laws Railroad Museum. It doesn't operate regularly, but is on display daily.
Max

CB&Q 9735, formerly owned by Clint Jones, is now at the Minnesota Transportation Museum.

I have been active at IRM for 19 years, and can verify that 4668 was in our collection. It was never owned by the museum, but privately by Herb Hansen. According to old IRM newsletters, Herb purchased the 4668 in 1968. In 1978, the internal combustion department was created, with the 4668 being one of the pieces assigned to the new department. However, the 4668 is not listed in the official museum roster dated December 31, 1979. If the stories I've heard from those that were around when this happened are correct, Herb sold the car (presumably in 1978-1979) to Clint Jones, and I do believe that it is now in Escanaba.

I hate to bring this post back up after having been dead for a few years, but I have an answer. Union Pacific #1, McKeen's first motor car, was a Maroon body, black undercarriage motor car, that was 31' with 100 horse power, and 2 axles. If one could imagine this car running around Nebraska in the eyes of a Nebraskan, he would think he saw a "Potato Bug" which was the cars first nickname, but, the nickname changed when they described it as "doodling" around the country side. So, the name "Doodlebug" was born. U.P. #2-#6 were all of similar design, with 100 H.P. engines, were 55' long, with all square windows, except a small (possibly 16" Dia.) round window in the front near the cab for the restroom. Those 5 cars were given the railroad slang "Battleships."

Later nicknames included: "Skunks," "(Red) Submarines," "Jitneys (rarely used)," and a few others I can remember. Since the McKeen Gasoline engines were unreliable, I am sure they were called other things in the shops.

So, here's another question.....
Is there a list of all known currently surviving Doodlebugs?
I know that before the "new" Edwards railcar operation folded they had the bodies of 2 or more cars that I'm wondering what has happened to them.
One of them was an Edwards model 25... built, I think, for Tallulah falls? I'm not sure of the railroads correct name. The car body had been used as a house.
Another was similar to a Mack railbus, but I think the name started with an "s"? Can't remember the name right now...

If you use the definition of the 'doodlebugs' as "single, self-powered rail motorcars that with some exception may have had single trailers," Pacific Southwest Railway Museum's (PSRM) 1932 12 passenger Fairmont rail bus fits. 40 hp Ford Model A power. Certainly smaller than those used as Skunks, etc. See: https://www.psrm.org/trains/passenger/smv-9/

The other car that I couldn't remember was a Sykes car.
I define Doodlebugs in two groups:
Gas or diesel electric and gas or diesel mechanical.
Why? Because, while most mechanical "motor" cars were smaller than the electrics, the seating capacity was often very similar and they did much the same job. Both often could pull trailer cars, although the mechanical car trailers were not normal sized coaches.....
In a way their difference is equivalent to the difference between a Taurus and a Prius.....

If I'm counting correctly there should be eight or nine surviving Edwards cars in the U.S.:
M100 at Cal western rr (model 20)
M200 at Spencer ( model 20)
9507? at V&T (model 20?)
9505 at Craggy mountain line (Model 20?)
M503 at Montgomery? (Model 25?)
Yadkin 100 at Newton, NC (model 10)
M 500 at Montgomery (model 10,early style)
M 401 at Nevada state rr museum (model 10, late style)
Are there any more?
Several of these survivors are incomplete bodies, only two model 20's and two model 10's have the original trucks.