For those of you who have traveled to Central America or keep tabs on railroads there, can you tell me what is left of the pre-KCS Panama RR? Any steam locomotives, broad-gauge Alco diesels, roundhouses, old shop buildings, etc?

denmeg_hogan@msn.com

Dennis,

I seem to remeber them raising a French tank engine and some carriages out of Gatoun Lake a year or so ago, but I don't know what happened to them after that.

Taylor

thrush@smt-net.com

Any steam locomotives,
> broad-gauge Alco diesels, roundhouses, old
> shop buildings, etc?

Was the Panama RR broadgauge? When I was a kid in my hometown (Cortland NY) there was an 060 purchased by the local steel mill from Baldwin that was refused by the gov't for use in the canal construction. It was rec'd as std gauge. Wasn't the Panama RR std guage also?

frankr@ieee.org

> Was the Panama RR broadgauge? When I was a
> kid in my hometown (Cortland NY) there was
> an 060 purchased by the local steel mill
> from Baldwin that was refused by the gov't
> for use in the canal construction. It was
> rec'd as std gauge. Wasn't the Panama RR std
> guage also?

The Panama Railway was 5' gauge, It was built to that width in the 1850s to serve as a portage road across the isthmus, and thus it predates by some time either the French or American canal projects. This is the railway which is now controlled by KCS and has been standard-gauged.

The American canal construction railways of Teddy Roosevelt's day may have used either standard or 3' gauge, or both--anybody know?


eledbetter@rypn.org

I believe the canal construction railway was built at 5' gauge. There is a steam shovel in a gravel pit in central Kentucky that is reported to be one of the ones used to build the canal, and one of the few that was actually shipped back to the U.S.. Wheter it was or not, it did originally have trucks under it, and probably 5' gauge trucks at that.

wilkidm@wku.edu

> I believe the canal construction railway was
> built at 5' gauge.

I was just reading Howard Clifford's "Allaska/Yukon Railroads" published by Oso Publishing in 1999. The book covers the Alaskan besides the other railroads in Alaska and the Canadian Yukon territory.

There was a 1914 Federal act that required the Alaskan railroad construction to use equipment from the completed Panana Canal project. This came free with only costs being transportation and modification.

The Alaska commission took 18 2-6-0 locomotives and had wide tires placed on them to change from 5'0" to standard.

None of the Alco 2-6-0s survived in Alaska. But, one of the other engines went through an equipment dealer to the Dardanelle & Ruysselville and David J Conrad lists the engine on display in Shreveport, Louisiana.

The commission also took 22 narrow gauge construction locomotives. One of these converted to standard gauge is on display in Anchorage.

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net

Eureka Springs & North Arkansas #201, ex Moscow, Camden & St. Augustine, is an ex-canal construction locomotive. As built it was 5' gauge and now has wide driver tires to bring the flanges to standard gauge.

I recall reading that three 5' gauge 2-6-0's survive in the US. Shreveport has one and I don't remember the third one.

A French narrow gauge locomotive from the canal ended up in the Henry Ford Museum and was later sold to a bank in Traverse City, Michigan which displayed it in front of the bank, a converted Pere Marquette brick passenger depot. It has since moved to ?.

Having nothing to do with locomotives, but other preserved artifacts at the Traverse City bank/depot were the three? C&O employees. They retained an office in the depot, surrounded by bank employees.

dsrc512@sd.value.net

> The Panama Railway was 5' gauge, It was
> built to that width in the 1850s to serve as
> a portage road across the isthmus, and thus
> it predates by some time either the French
> or American canal projects. This is the
> railway which is now controlled by KCS and
> has been standard-gauged.

> The American canal construction railways of
> Teddy Roosevelt's day may have used either
> standard or 3' gauge, or both--anybody know?

Erick; When I worked at the Mt Vernon Car shops
during WW2 they were using 2 or more engines that
were said to have been used in the construction of the Panama Canal. Since some of the engineers in management positions at the shop had been
involved in construction of the canal I have no
doubt that was true.
The engines were saturated steam but I don't remember the wheel arrangement. I do know that
some mornings they made quite a fuss out of the chore of pushing 2 or 3 cars up the hill to the
J.P.Devine plant and the wheel foundry. Our
drafting room was on the 3rd floor of the general
office so we had a ring side seat for the show.
They were standard gauge.
Jim


rrfanjim@mvn.net

> Dear Dennis:
I believe that there are several steam locomotives that have seen service in Panama in existance in the USA.
Isthmian Canal Commission 2-6-0 No. 203, later MC&SA No. 201 at Eureka Springs, AR
Isthmian Canal Commission 2-6-0 No. 278, late D&R No.10 at Shreveport, LA
Isthmian Canal Commission 2-6-0 No. 299, later Panama RR No. 299 at Paterson, NJ (still 5' gauge)
Isthmian Canal Commission 0-4-0T No. 802, later US Engineering Commission No.6 at Anchorage, AK
At one time there was a French built 2-6-0ST in Michigan, but it was repatriated in the 1980s' to a tourist line in France.
Railway & Locomotive Historical Society Bulletin No. 80 features the Panama RR.
J.David

jdconrad@snet.net

> I recall reading that three 5' gauge 2-6-0's
> survive in the US. Shreveport has one and I
> don't remember the third one.

I believe the third engine is displayed at Patterson, NJ as a memorial to her birthplace, the Rogers Locomotive Works.

kevingillespie@usa.net

> I believe the third engine is displayed at
> Patterson, NJ as a memorial to her
> birthplace, the Rogers Locomotive Works.

That is indeed correct. Number 299 sits in front of the Paterson Museum which was the Rogers erecting building. This is a museum to the technologies pioneered in that area including locomotive building, textiles, aviation, etc. It is a facinating history with the Paterson Falls for energy production and their system of canals for water wheels throughout the city. Unfortunately, it is not the nicest place these days. Paterson was my birthplace in 1964 but I migrated to Tennessee (and TVRM) several years later.


info@tvrail.com

http://www.thepatersonmuseum.org
info@tvrail.com

The French locomotive is now at CF de la Baie De Somme, Saint Valery, France. It was moved in 1994.

I have since photographed in the engine in Ford Park in Shreveport, LA; it is in terrible shape. From pictures I have seen on the net, the rest are in better shape.

There is at least one or two engines in Cuba which it is claimed were used at the Panama Canal. One of them is #1456, a 2-6-2T at 626 Guatemala Sugar Mill, Cuba.

In Panama itself, someone has already mentioned the 1885-built Franco-Belge 0-6-0T that was raised from Gatun Lake. It was in a French railyard that not being used at the time the canal was being built, so it was simply flooded. There may be another locomotive in the lake, but I am not certain about that.

The only other steam locomotive in Panama is not associated with the Canal at all. It was part of a gold mining operation in the Darien Gap, just above South America. The entire works was left to the jungle when it closed; the engine and other equipment are now part of the wildlife refuge at the Santa Cruz de Cana Mining Centre. It is just a little narrow guage 0-4-0T; probably O&K.

I can't help with the diesels; sorry.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> I believe that there are several steam
> locomotives that have seen service in Panama
> in existance in the USA.
> Isthmian Canal Commission 2-6-0 No. 203,
> later MC&SA No. 201 at Eureka Springs,
> AR
> Isthmian Canal Commission 2-6-0 No. 278,
> late D&R No.10 at Shreveport, LA
> Isthmian Canal Commission 2-6-0 No. 299,
> later Panama RR No. 299 at Paterson, NJ
> (still 5' gauge)
> Isthmian Canal Commission 0-4-0T No. 802,
> later US Engineering Commission No.6 at
> Anchorage, AK
> At one time there was a French built 2-6-0ST
> in Michigan, but it was repatriated in the
> 1980s' to a tourist line in France.
> Railway & Locomotive Historical Society
> Bulletin No. 80 features the Panama RR.
> J.David


Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

Does anyone know if the Chiriqui Land Co. narrow gauge line (three-foot) is still extant in Panama?

If I remember right, one of the ex-United Fruit 2-6-0s that is now in the US came from there originally.

bobyar2001@yahoo.com