First off I’m sorry if this topic has been covered on this forum before and I have not located it yet, but my question is the following:

Roughly how many Gallons of paint does it take to paint the sides and ends of a Heavyweight Pullman Car (80ft or so) in Pullman Green?
How many Gallons does it take to paint the roof in black? Underbody and Trucks? Need this for estimate for donation of paint materials.

Ok now who out there has paint numbers/codes for (DuPont Imron) in Pullman Green?

Our local preservation group is looking to get paint donated to paint a HW Observation Car currently being restored, and would like an idea of what other groups have used in their projects in quantity “Gallons” per color area, and paint codes. They have heard good things about DuPont Imron and would like to go with that, with plans of hand panting the lettering (Professionally). Also what color of undercoat (Primer) is recommended for use under the Pullman green? What was originally used?

Thank you all for any help you can provide

You can estimate roughly 400 sq ft per gallon for coverage. That is a plus or minus number depending on the ocmplexity of the surface. For instance I would not subtract the glass area of the side windows - they will be masked and sprayed also.

Select your topcost first and that will answer your primer question. Ordinary primers will generally fail when using lacquer based enamels or even many epoxy catalyzed enamels. And most of the two part paints have other additives you will want to consider. Hardener, retarder, and even an accelerator for colder temps. But the primer must be compatible with the topcoat.

Imron has been hailed as a wonderful top coat and it is. But it almost requires it be sprayed by someone who has some experience with it. Definitely NOT THE SAME as shooting a gallon of rustoleum.

IMRON has the additional complication that its atomized mist or droplets are very dangerous. Not toxic per se, but any brought in while you are breathing will remain in your lungs and set up into fine microgranules which are not biodegradable and cannot be purged by your system. So commercially it is required to be sprayed indoors with air handling and filter/scrubbers and personnel with 100% enclosed suit with separate clean air supply. A snap over your head filter is not sufficient protection.

There may be codes in your area regarding this if you choose IMRON. Some have gone ahead and sprayed it outdoors and hope for a day that is not windy. This could be considered 'not smart' and perhaps illegal. Consider safety your top priority.

Bob Kutella

I think I have a DuPont paint number for Pullman Green. But I believe it is a DuLux number and I am told that there is no easy conversion from DuLux to Imron because of changes in the paint chemistry.

When I come across the number I will post.

Here is what I have found on Pullman Green.

The first number I came up with was Dupont 5502 this is from C&NW passenger locomotive paint diagrams.

Dupont 5502 crosses to PPG 81649 This is the color and paint that I have used and it looks like Pullman green to me.

Now it gets fun. PPG 81649 does NOT cross back to Dupont 5502.

PPG 81649 crosses to Dupont 4558. Dupont calls this color Pullman Green.

Now you take Dupont 4558. It crosses to PPG 42791.

Then take PPG 42791 and you will come back to Dupont 4558

That is 4 color numbers that in theory should be the same color.


Tim

IMHO to cover my rear end, Any good two part urethane will give you great performance. I know that Sherman Williams industrial line of urethane coatings can color match to what ever color you need, just give them a color sample.

As far as coverage, that can vary widely depending on the product. I just used a urethane that has a 110 to 180 sq/gl spread rate. The other choice I had in urethane had a spread rate of 200 to 250. I used 1 gallon of the high build direct to metal (DTM) urethane, reduced about a pint to put one coat on a set of friction bearing trucks.

The paint industry is improving technology all the time. I am fortunate to has a friend who has his PHD in chemistry and designs paints for the industry. He recently designed a paint for stenciling that skins over in two hours so the rail car could be moved outside and the weather wouldn't affect it, then it would cure all the way.

Urethane is nasty stuff, be sure to use a good respirator when spaying and even mixing up the paints.

Scott

Have any of you restoration guys switched to an HVLP setup for paint spraying?

Being into cars, all of my "car" friends are switching over to HVLP systems for painting vehicles. They say that you use a lot less paint, it's easier to spray, and less cleanup since the paint mainly goes just on the object that you're spraying (instead of the large amounts of overspray with a traditional air gun).

Like Scott said, wear breathing protection. Some of the new paint technology is VERY dangerous to the body. Some of friends have even gone to the hobby air setup:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/t ... bbyair.php
http://clmcenterprises.com/hobbyair.htm

Or you could make something like this:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2951/air_supply.html

When we painted the N6B chassis last summer I used my HVLP gun and it worked very well indeed. Wayne was using his old Binks (or was it a Devilbiss ?) gun. We used a black enamel that was part of the system we used to match the primer. Never, ever use different manufacturers paint and primer. It may look good at first but it will deteriorate to the point it coul begin to peel and flake some where down the road. And as stated above, check your local codes. You may not be able to paint outside.

Later!
Mr. Ed

Southern Railway Research and Tests worked with DuPont to develop the shade of Pullman Green in Imron that they used on Office Cars. The paint number is K7978U. Early attempts turned toward yellow after a year, but they got that fixed toward the end.

Bruce Backus

Thank you everyone for the great information, and I look forward to any and all additional information that this forum has to offer on this topic. The more the info the better! Thank you again as always I'll be monitoring this board.

Steve aka Mr.Pullman

It is completely illegal to spray either catalyzed enamels (Centari) or two-part polyurethanes (Imron) out of doors. On top of that, state regulations are usually far more restrictive than the Federal ones-and the states handle enforcement and fine schedules to boot.

I note that the local commuter outfit gave up on spraying the small amount of equipment that wasn't stainless steel based upon complaints from the affected unions and the local DEP. The solution involved formulation of an automotive enamel that could be applied with a roller and a brush.

I wouldn't rule out a high grade water borne paint system applied with HVLP equipment. In this case, half the loaf might be better than none.

Dave