Hello,

I'll show my age here.

Do you all remember the movie Kelly's Heros, a WWII movie? There was scene where Donald Sutherland was on a mountain looking at valley where a bridge was crossing a river. He wanted to use the bridge to cross the river with his tank corp. He looked at the bridge through is binoculars and said, "Its still up!". The soldier beside him started moaning and groaning about how the Germans were going to bomb it....yadda.....yadda...yadda. A few moments later a plane came and bombed the bridge. Donald turned to the soldier and said, you see! You through out those negative waves and look what it did!

Folks, we need to send out positive waves here! (I am speaking to myself too!)

Man, we are a pessimistic bunch!

Cheers!

Randy Musselman

We are a broke bunch.

Somebody needs to win the lottery.

MX

The cold reality is that to purchase this locomotive it could cost 6 figures. To move it will cost 5 figures. To return it to coal fired I'm sure would be 5 figures.

So with these kind of numbers, who would buy it?

In todays market, scrapping is a reality. Selling off parts and scrapping the remains could happen in a less than worst case situation.

It would be great to see this thing go back home, maybe via the Reading group or RR Museum of PA, but niether group has yet to come forward and express public interest in the locomotive.

Smokebox

I would agree that before we get all caught up in negative scenarios we wait and see what developes. If the creditors decide to sell the 2100 to provide some funds to pay creditors ( the most likely scenario-IMHO) I'm sure there will be plenty of advance public notice so that anyone capable can participate.
In the interim if you think you'll be a player start lining up your cash now.
Ross Rowland

The RCT&HS has a couple hundred/thousand tons of other stuff to attend to first, and also has not one, not two, but three other possible T1s to either attend to or acquire, all FAR closer to their home base than 2100 is right now--and one of them just might become available on far more friendly terms sometime in the future.

The administration of the RR Museum of Pennsylvania, I am told, is basically officially barred from even expressing a desire for any potential future acquisition. Sizing up potential acquisitions and making them available somehow is the duty of the Friends of the RR Museum of Pa., and as much as I would love to see a more diverse, non-PRR representation at the RR Museum of Pa. and as much as I might think a Reading T1 fits the bill perfectly in that regard, it would be perhaps far easier and cheaper to either cut a deal with Steamtown or the B&O Museum for one of those T1s or to schmooze Andy Muller into leaving his 2102 to the Museum (or the RCT&HS, I don't care).

To be blunt about it, what with three other T1s needing paint and one of those in supposedly operable coal-burning condition, 2100 is in effect expendable. Leave her for some other millionaire to throw money at, or for a casino to buy and hang from the ceiling, or for the Grand Canyon RR to turn into the newest 4-8-4 rebuild with all the latest technological advances............

I agree with Sandy, 2100 is where it is, in the situation it is in, because of the people that put it there. This is not an emergency that the RCT&HS and RMPA are in any way obligated to deal with.

MX

Sorry Les, Have to side with Randy on this one. Taking continual pot shots at the SAME institutions is the WHY, and the fact that person/ persons who did so nearly shut this board down permanently is the justification.

Fact is (and yes, this includes ones that I have volunteered and worked for), there isn't a single organization, rail museum, or steam oriented entity that hasn't made mistakes, some of them costly, but CONTINUALLY digging up past transgressions, whether done in meaningful dialogue or not, indicates only that we still have a long way to go to move from reactionary to ACTION-based in this industry.

Moving forward means just that; and although we are starting to do so on some level, it greatly concerns me that we degrade ourselves by tattle-taleing on organizations to make ourselves look better. At times, I wonder if we are doing nothing more than running adult day cares (or retirement homes) where inane conversation about supposed wrongs that happened 25 or 30 tyears to certain groups or individuals that no one cares about anymore.

Grow up. Move on. Do Something to preserve, protect and interpret, rather than bicker while your glorified junk yard rusts into the ground. Stop harping on the past, and start making a future where your grandkids can experience some semblance of what you love about rail preservation. Live life, don't let it live you.

Lets get over ourselves and move on people.

And we wonder why younger generations aren't interested in doing this......

TJG

Accurate, relevant and compelling!

Thanks, TJ, for injecting a little sanity to all this.....

Take a deep breath, calm down and go out and DO. Learn from (but don't harp on) mistakes (yours and others).

One of my mentors in this railroad preservation thing taught me 30+ years ago that, "It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice." I think that was/is good advice.

And, I really don't think 2100 will become Chinese rebar.

(Full disclosure Dept.-- 2100 was the first BIG engine I saw live and rode behind, on June 14, 1964, RDG Ramble #49)

Howard P.

MP 6 on the Naugy

In the East, home of the Reading, coal is common and normal, here in the west, we assume oil as the norm…. (120 years ago in much of the west, most would have thought of wood as the common standard.)

In the East coal is common and available. In the West coal is uncommon, and is commonly transported here from the east. Here oil is easily found and common. Wild fire issues (less so in Washington than California) make oil more public friendly.

Here we have an eastern loco which has moved west… coal to oil would be an expected part of the migration as the loco adapts to its new homeland. I can’t and won’t comment on the choices made during the conversion.

Historically (and currently) locomotives were converted from one fuel to another as they changed owners (or in the case of the SP changed operating divisions.)

I include research on western railroad car builders as one of my personal interests. I find that eastern centric researchers don’t understand the western railroad car builders, based on their eastern knowledge base. This includes Jack White (who’s books I own and love)

Try not to look at the Washington operation and its choices with eastern eyes. (but, as a westerner I might question their choice of locomotives….)

Sometimes decisions are products of the locality...

While it's no where near its home, I for one would be impressed to see the 2100 running out at the Grand Canyon RR.....really the only place outside of Andy's Empire that would see the chance for the engine to stretch it's legs on a daily basis.

One can dream eh?

Odball look at the bridge through his binoculars.
"It's still up!"
Two planes (actually T-6 trainers) go over and drop the bridge into the river.
"No it ain't! See what sending out those negative waves did?"
That was Gavin McCloud (later Capt Steubing from "The Love Boat") he told that to, by the way. And it was a Railroad bridge. Oh, the irony!

Gee, I found nothing that was considered flaming. All of the posts in this thread was a regurgitation of rumors, facts and history that I've read or heard over the years about Steamtown.

We are all dealing with history here, and as such we should all know the credo that those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. If discussion of past mistakes and blunders made by rail preservationists are forbidden, then I guess we do not learn and are doomed to make those mistakes again.

Mr. Hees makes an excellent point. I must plead guilty to strongly prefering a coal fired locomotive over an oil fired one. I'm sure that part of that strong preference is driven by literally growing up on and around the coal versions and now it's second nature to expect the sight,aroma and sounds of a coal burner. Yes, and even the chore of cleaning the fire, getting rid of the ashes etc. is (to me) an important part of the whole experience.
However, in todays reality (particularly in the far west) the economics alone almost mandate burning oil. To buy and ship good quality 14,000 btu eastern coal and ship it to say Arizona will end up costing approx. $300/ton by the time you get it loaded in the tender. With 614 we take 50 tons to fill us up if empty (she'll hold about 56 tons loaded to the gunels) so that's $15,000 just for coal and she can burn all 50 tons with a 25 car train in about 300 miles (track speed, average terrain). Burning #2 oil she'd use approx. 3,000 gallons @ $2/gallon. Plus no ashes to get rid of and far less fire setting danger.
Mr. Paynes reasons for converting the 2100 to oil are not known to me but simple economics may have been an important part of his decision?? At the time he bought the engine I strongly recommended that he contact Bob Franzen then the CMO of the Grand Canyon and get Bobs help in the conversion. I did this as the GC had just done several conversions and I was sure Bob would share their knowledge base. Mr. Payne said that he was going to do it his way and didn't need any assistance. As the saying goes- the rest is history.
Heres hoping the right someone shows up on sale day??? Time will tell.
Ross Rowland

never say never. the almighty $$ speaks loudly. check out CV6.org. The WWll Aircraft Carrier USS Enterprise, the most highly decorated uS Navy ship from that war, which the Sec of the Navy, and even Pres. Truman said should be preserved was cut up for scrap. If it had not been for this ship, California might be a Japanese colony.
2100 isn't safe, nor is anything else from the scrap man.