Does the name 'Luria Bros' (Modena Pa) ring a bell with anyone here ? Seem to recall viewing photographic evidence (either in book or magazine form) of large numbers of steam locomotives being cut in the early 60's.

In a strange twist of fate, the same outfit cut up many a retired PC Alco switcher.

DPK

No one mentioned the 0-8-0 switchers that were apparently stored for a possible sale in the Riverside roundhouse into at least 1960. The sale didn't take place, so my guess is that these would have been the last steam owned by the NYC, though not in regular service obviously.

Glad to see we were able to do the paint touch ups on 6894 in time for the photographers! Milwaukee SD10 532 was just finished up before this photo was taken as well.

David Farlow, CMO
Whitewater Valley Railroad

David -

This is the first I heard of NYC 0-8-0's being held for possible resale. Do you happen to know the possible buyer was? And approximately how many were held?

Les

I didn't think this was an unknown fact, perhaps our local people kept a watch for these things. Hopefully someone out there can give a better account than I can, but essentially there were around six of them kept inside the roundhouse. I believe they were to go to a mining company. Certainly there is something on the internet about these engines. I have no idea of the road numbers, but I understand that they were U class 0-8-0's.

Since I was born about a month before the Penn Central merger, this is definitely not first hand knowledge!

David Farlow

Were these Canada Southern engines, numbered in the 7500 series?

I pulled out the books put out by the NYCSHS "Steam Locomotives of the New York Central Lines" by William Edson & H.L. Vail to see if your question could be answered easily... The engines are listed by the original line / owner and follow up through the last NYC disposition (sold to ATSF, Scrapped, etc.). Most interesting thing I think is who were regular buyers of retired NYC engines.

While not an exhaustive search, (I looked for most recent dates) it looks like Niagara #6000 was the last of the 4-8-4's to go in March of 1956, P&LE #9406 2-8-4 cut up in March of 1957, The J-1d #5394 on the Big 4 and J-1b #5350 on the Michigan Central were scrapped in March 1956 with J-3's #5433, #5449, and #5452 shown as scrapped April of 1956. These dates are probably when the engines were officially off the books, they may have stayed around a little longer. MC U-2 0-8-0 #7538 marked down as May of 1959. The last NYC steam in Canada is listed as being 4-6-0 #1290 retired 4-57. The former Big Four listed H-7e 2-8-2's #1962,#1969, and #1954 scrapped February of 1959, L2dMohawk #2454 is listed as scrapped on April of 1959 with U-3e 0-8-0 #7912 marked down as May of 1959. The book doesn't list final locations of the engines.

It looks like the engines that were likely stored at the Riverside roundhouse into 1960+ were likely ex P&LE U-31 0-8-0's that had been transferred to the Big Four #'s 8000, 8006, 8008, 8012,8034,and 8060. The book lists them with an August of 1959 date.

Interesting to note that the L3a Mowhawk #3001 was sold to the T&P in February of 1957.

Hope this is of interest,

David Farlow
Whitewater Valley Railroad

David -

Yes, interesting stuff. I am a bit surprised though, that you did not mention even one 0-6-0 considering that the 6894 is now on the Whitewater Valley roster. Do the books show when the last 0-6-0 formally left the New York Central System roster?

Les

Les,

The original post was looking for dates on the Hudson's and Niagara's, so I didn't bother with notes on the switchers.

It looks like most of the 0-6-0's were being replaced 1945-49. Another batch left 1951-52. I few held on for a few more years, but 1955 is a distinct line. I guess all those DS1000's, S12's, S-1's - S-4's, SW1's & NW2's really made a dent quickly and the 0-8-0's took care of the rest of the work until they weren't needed any longer.

Our #6894 was sold in November of 1945 so it had an early escape from the Central. By comparison its sister #6895 (also a steam heat equipped switcher apparently working in Detroit) was retired 7-51 and scrapped in 10-51. The other 0-6-0 survivor #6721 is shown as being sold to Central Illinois Public Service in Huttonville, IL in September of 1953. At least 13 engines were leased to the Cincinnati Union Terminal in 1933, no idea when these were cut up. One B-11k engine is shown as being assigned to Cincinnati Union Terminal #7405 retired 3-55, scrapped 4-55. These engines were replaced by various switchers including our Lima diesel #25.

It looks like the last of the 0-6-0's were ones that ran on the Whitewater Branch including #6784 and #6825. We have photos of both when assigned to Connersville in 1955 and 1956. #6784 was retired in December of 1956 and #6825 is shown to have been retired in May of 1957. This is consistent with the vintage films and photos I've seen of our line. I've seen photos of RS-12's and S-12s on the Whitewater following 1957. No idea why the steam lasted so long in the valley, it wasn't bridge ratings or anything like that.

So, I guess if you have a time machine and have your long term storage arrangements worked out, the best selection of 0-6-0's for sale would have been in the late 1940's early 50's and you had better have the deal inked on your Hudson by 1952!

David Farlow
Whitewater Valley Railroad

IIRC, Mohawk #3001 was bought by T&P to replace one of their own Mountain-types that had been vandalized while on static display in Dallas, TX. The T&P loco was scrapped on site and #3001, renumbered T&P #909, replaced it.

David -

Might the light rail on the Whitewater Branch be the reason that numbers 6784 and 6825 lasted so much longer than their sister NYC 0-6-0's?

I think light rail was the reason that 4-6-0 #1290 and her sister lasted so long on the NYC owned line up in Canada.

Les

The T&P loco that was scrapped on site was 2-10-4 #638 which met her sad demise in 1955.

Les,

I should have noted that the 0-6-0's were stationed in Connersville to serve all the industries that were once there such as Philco, Stant, and Rootes Blower. Seems a natural choice to put a diesel switcher in to handle that work, but for some reason the former Big 4 kept the last of the steam on the NYC. Connersville had a turntable as well to turn the road engines near downtown.

The daily trains from Cincinnati were pulled by H-5 and similar 2-8-2's. We have a few photos of these engines on the line such as #1436 shown in the book as being retired in December of 1955.

The south end of the part we own has 90# rail and the rest of our line has 80# and some 70# mixed in here and there. Apparently the H-5's didn't have a problem on the rail. Most of the bridges on the line were substantially upgraded on the line sometime before 1920. There may have been a plan to use the line for other purposes that never materialized.

We now also have some rail sections of 105#, 115#, and even 132#!

I mentioned the T&P sale just because the #3001 survived, not much steam to choose from in 1955 on the NYC.

David Farlow

Les,

Ran across this in Alvin Stauffer / Edward May's NYC's Later Power (1910-1968) book while looking for something else.

1932 the 0-6-0 roster was 681 system wide
1939 down to 414
1951 only 128

According to this book, the last five 0-6-0's retired were 6785, 6825, 6836, 6932, and 6934.

David Farlow, CMO
Whitewater Valley Railroad

David -

Thanks for the additional information. I guess we should be glad that two NYC 0-6-0's still survive.

Les

It is almost amazing that they did when you look at the numbers!

David Farlow