Tom,

Give us a heads up if you spot the train heading back east for the benefit of those near Waterloo...

KL

Am I to guess correctly that you're a former Conrail guy?

Might I quote:


followed by:


...Indeed I will...

Like any other job, I can understand where people may not always find railroading enjoyable. Having come from a railroading family myself with more than 150+ years of combined experience I've heard more than my share of stories. Oddly enough, most of them seem to be positive.

So, I will make my own attempt to place a more positive spin on the OCS subject. Lets look at the facts of this situation from a business perspective. The OCS's main focus is to entertain customers. These customers in turn ship their products via NS, which generates revenue. Although the OCS itself is not directly generating revenue, indirectly it is fostering a better relationship between the shipper and the railroad.

I do understand the frustration of having reliable power on the head-end of a revenue train. Any concerns of that type should be addressed to Norfolk Southern. As strange as it may seem, most of us here on this forum do not have the ability and/or power to rectify that situation, as hard as we may try. We're on this forum because we enjoy the history, we love to share our memories, and we want to improve the likelihood that another piece of railroading will be preserved in some way, shape, or form. Oh, and I thought that we were on here because we liked trains.

Now onto another subject, the F-units themselves and the complaints most commonly expressed about them. Yes, I realize its not a perfect match to the Southern paint scheme, yes I realize they don't look like they did in decades past, and yes I realize that they may not have the "right and proper" type of equipment under the hood. But should we forget the fact that a Class I railroad has taken the time to offer us the opportunity to view and photograph F-units without so much as asking us to contribute a dime? Maybe I'm missing something here...

On a lighter note, my experience in dealing with NS (both management and non-management) has been quite a positive one. A friend of mine who is an engineer out of Elkhart has often told me thats its the best thing he's ever done (he's not a foamer by the way - a term that he often uses to describe me). I asked him a few months back what his favorite type of run has been between Elkhart and Chicago. His answer: unloading welded rail - not a revenue run, but he enjoyed it anyways. Is there a lesson to be learned from this?

Favorite run: "Unloading welded rail".

I have to say, that of all the types of trains I have run in the past six years or so, I would not have put that on my list of favorites. I have done it. I will say that if you don't do something like that very often, it can be very challenging. The rail crew needs each piece to be dropped within an inch or two of the previous one. Calls for using a lot of air and stretch braking. Also, involves a lot of sitting around waiting for the rail crew to do their prep-work, the dispatcher to give you the railroad, etc. I've been lucky to get a solid two hours of rail dropping on one of those jobs.

Give me a well-powered manifest train on the RF&P of about 7,000 feet - just long enough to smooth out the little undulations and with enough weight to keep it going 50 per without a lot of throttle adjustments.

He just found that one to be the most interesting. I guess after running one trailvan train after another, it would break up some of the monotony.

During the operation of the Chessie Steam Special (1977-'78) we suggested to senior management that they make use of this beautiful excursion train during the weekdays to entertain customers and their families as many folks had never ridden a passenger train-seen a live steam engine etc.
Their initial reaction was that they didn't think many would be interested but they reluctantly agreed to a test while we were in Detroit,Mi. and invited folks from the big 3 auto makers and their families. The train quickly filled up (about 800 seats) and we had to run it a second day to accomodate all those who rsvp'd in the positive. The tremendous feedback convinced mgt. that it was very worthwhile and it was repeated several more times down the road.
Seems to me that the more NS makes use of its unique history and the beautiful equipment that helps tell that story the better!!
As public-private partnerships become increasingly important to the railroad industry (i.e. tax insentives to encourage/reward capital investment in the physical plant) I believe the class 1's will become increasingly aware that the basic love of trains, held to some degree by most Americans, can be effectively exploited in part by smart use of historic equipment "doing its thing".
IMHO-Ross Rowland

One of my "Weekend Excursion runs" put me in North Texas watching a UP work convoy strip a line of rail. Spikes were ground off and the track was picked up and loaded onto the "train". There were 6 rack cars loaded with removed rail. Made me wonder if this configuration was for straight runs and what differed for curves.

You're entitled to your opinion, but you're not entitled to claim the right not to be disputed because by virtue of your tenure you have some special insight nobody else posesses. Because you can run a train, doesn't mean you can run a railroad.

Whenever I see an NS train, its seems like the power's pretty damn new and I see a whole lote of engines getting serviced at Enola. Maybe its just a tough busness on machinery and that's part of the game. You aren't running Baldwins or Alcos. But again I ask, if your employment is so unsatisfying why continue to do it? EVERYBODY has frustration at work, sometimes its related to employees that are malcontented and disagreeable, sometimes its something else-but this isn't the place for it.

You should realize this is a board that attracts enthusiasts. Of course its always easy to look through rose colored glasses, not facing the frustrations of employment. Some of us even know we like being involved at arm's length's because its better than haulin' our tail out of bed at some goofy hour when its 10 below or facing nonexistent holidays.

Just becuase a NS train seems to have "new power" doesn't mean it is going to run worth a darn. Many of those dash-9s are approaching 10 years old already! This is the special knowledge that us, employees, are entitled to. Sorry, but railfans really do not have a clue unless you work on these things day in and out.

Why do we work for the RR? It is the $$$$$$$$$, baby ! Yes we have bad runs, but we also have the occasional good run that makes it all worth it. Besides, complaining is the one thing all rail employees have in common. If you're going to deny employees the right to complain, you are really denying history.

Sorry to ruin the image of the perfect railroader some of you guys seem to have...

zugman said:
"Besides, complaining is the one thing all rail employees have in common."

I think one of the truest statements about railroaders I've ever heard is, "Three railroaders together is a union meeting". Most of the non-railroaders on here and most other fan sites probably wouldn't like what they would hear in the crew room in most yards, especially about them (the fans) from the non-fan workers. And, yes, those of us who are fans get it too from (some of) them. It doesn't help that management strongly suggests that we call the cops on the photographers in the name of "rail security", even some middle-aged guy with a young kid with him harmlessly standing on some station platform at off hours taking photos. Meantime, you can't get the bulls to come anywhere near real trouble, like kids rocking trains, or piling potentially dangerous debris on the tracks. They'll take an incident report over the phone or radio, but come out and spend some time trying to catch these vandals, you must be kidding!

I also would strongly suggest to fans that you DO NOT join any industry sponsored railfan "club". This is the equivalent of saying you want to be on a terrorist watch list. The minute some criminal act happens on a railroad within 10 miles of where you live, the bulls will be knocking on your door with some pointed questions and maybe accusations. NRHS, yes; AAR Club, NO!

Just because a NS train seems to have "new power" doesn't mean it is going to run worth a darn. Many of those dash-9s are approaching 10 years old already! This is the special knowledge that us, employees, are entitled to.
There’s no special knowledge there. Last I looked, locomotives were intended to last longer than 10 years. In any case, there are, right now, two manufacturers capable of delivering road locomotives. The big roads buy from both-so you have the best and the next best available equipment. It also seems like there’s no shortage of new SD-70(whatever the new suffix is) and ES-40’s- and its easy to tell because its painted right under the road number.

Interestingly enough, the (as of right now) minor players in the market-are REMANUFACTURERS, are using major components from older locomotives, so they have some life in them, even after the big roads consider them shot or disposable.

Sorry, but railfans really do not have a clue unless you work on these things day in and out.
I’m equally as sorry, but you because you know how to run a train, doesn’t mean that you know how to run a railroad. You clearly don’t understand how a business operates, how it attracts customers, capital, generates “goodwill”-where it gets its value from. If I was a shipper, reading this and other innumerable e-posts by individuals identifying themselves as railroaders, I sure as heck would want a ride over the road-and I’d be looking for the condition of the track, how trains are running, etc. You get paid to deal with delays, bad order power etc. Shippers don’t. They pay your salary and perks. First hand experience is the best form of evidence.

Moreover, many of us do have a clue- which is why we are in other professions. My parking lot over looks a fairly active NS yard and as I walked in this morning, I knew that in two months, it’ll be dark and cold and I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be there in the lousy weather flopping switches or even sitting in the cab.

Why do we work for the RR? It is the $$$$$$$$$, baby !

Then may I suggest that you made a choice and live with it. But sorry-it isn’t the money. I know of few other occupations where people say their job is awful, but then (if such a thing exists) go home to look for places to read about it, especially where you think outsiders supposedly have a totally idealized and unrealistic view of you job and the industry.

You want a tough job, try being on a shortline, where the pay is less, craft-lines nonexistent, and you might be nursing some 40 or 50 year old roster along. Or for that matter, step into another job. Try being a miner. Try being a corrections officer in the prison systems. Try working in a nursing home (aka God’s waiting room). Try working with special needs kids or adults. Try working in a factory-and worrying about being outsourced. Try answering a boss who wants to know why you missed your sales quota by 5%. For that matter, try running a small business-dealing with hostile regulators and tax authorities, employees that are unreliable, banks that charge you for everything, including even exchanges.

Try innumerable occupations where there’s no hours of service rule-you work until the job is done and the only retirement you get is the IRA you set up and fund yourself.

You are right, you make (good) money-there’s two ways to make money-have a skill and put up with some grief. Most require a little of both. Where else can you badmouth the company and not only expect not to get canned-but expect that you need to have your culture tolerated. Last I checked protecting the affairs of the company was a rule in most books.

Yes we have bad runs, but we also have the occasional good run that makes it all worth it. Besides, complaining is the one thing all rail employees have in common. If you're going to deny employees the right to complain, you are really denying history.


This isn’t “NS-SU**S.COM”. I already acknowledged the fact that among professional railroaders, its something of a requirement to complain. Complain all you want, but pee in your own Cheerios. Your fellow traveler uses the tagline “I get paid…”, so it can’t be that bad. Oh yeah, unlike one of my ancestors-you’ll never have to climb on a boxcar ten minutes before quitting time to fall and get cut in half-diagonally-and have your brother sent HOME for some sheets to pick up the parts. No investigation, no SOFA case study, a last paycheck and that was it. That's history. Those guys must roll over in their graves listening to you talk about "denying history".

Sorry to ruin the image of the perfect railroader some of you guys seem to have...
I can’t speak for others, but I harbor no such delusions of perfection.

It always amuses me the way Train and Engine Service (T&E) employees not only constantly complain, but assume they are the ONLY employees of the railroad that know anything. Well first of all, on most railroads, even short lines, they comprise less than 20 percent of the total employees. Most of them feel their paycheck comes from the union, not the company, and customers? They're to be hated as much as management! I've got news for them, without customers there would be no railroad and no paycheck. Without the maintenance of way folks, there would be no track to run on, without accounting people there would be no way to keep track of income and make payroll, and without the traffic department there would be no customers to pay the bills by providing freight to haul. There are lots of hungry truckers out there.

I spent most of the last half of my railroad career working for a short line owned by a major shipper, and was traffic manager for the shipper as well as director of marketing for the railroad and have observed that there are far too many operating folks that forget that the business is not running trains, but to provide time and place utility to shippers' freight.

Well back on-topic:

The OCS ran through my hometown of Argos, Indiana this morning just before noon. Here's a picture, regardless of what anybody says, its a beautiful train...

Much of what you say applies to just about every other industry. In too many instances employees who are two or more "steps" removed from the customer simply do not understand where their paychecks come from. Worse yet, many businesses fail to remind those employees who do not come in regular contact with customers the importance of constantly providing high-quality customer service in order to keep the billings--and paychecks--flowing. -- Ray

Must be the season for F units. This picture is from today in LA.


http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=209015