This subject comes up because of a program at my local NRHS Chapter last night. Part of the program was 16mm movies of the break-in runs and operations of RDG 2101 as AFT #1 in MD and the general DC/VA area, and later on the Chessie Steam Special. The crew car for much of this was a Budd built slumber coach. Now, I know for a fact that Mr. Rowland later sold the coach to Amtrak in the early to mid-80's. Only around 24 of these cars were ever built, and at that time Amtrak owned all of them. When Amtrak retired it's remaining heritage sleepers in the late '90's, were any bought for preservation or private operation as slumber coaches, and are any of them left in their original configuration?

I know a large number of retired heritage cars were bought by Ringling Bros. and converted to circus train service - which means they were completely gutted and made over. I'm hoping that at least one or two still remain intact. When I worked for Amtrak, I spent more than a few nights catching some sleep for a few hours at a time in them while running the lounge on the "Montrealer". My preference was usually for an upper level single, since in those you slept with your head not next to the toilet. The only problem with the uppers was remembering the big step down out the door when leaving - something I might not remember after only about four hours of sleep from closing to opening time.

Anyway, are any of them left intact?

Amtrak 2097, nee B&O "Dreamland," the last sleeper built for the B&O in 1958 at the B&O Museum.

A full chronology, history, and roster of all 28 (not 24) Slumbercoaches is in the just-printed-and-mailed Summer 2006 NRHS Bulletin, from an article by Tom Smith originally printed in the Wilmington NRHS Transfer Table. Sadly, however, the article gives no specifics about the (implied) full retirement of all survivors by Amtrak nor any preservation efforts!

B&O 7701 "Dreamland" is indeed the very car that High Iron Co. is shown as having acquired in 1970, resold to Amtrak in 1982 (according to this article/roster), and which later ended up at the B&O Museum.

I guess I need to be reminded of the definition of a Slumbercoach. My first thought was of a Pullman car with the staggered upper/lower roomettes, but surely there must have been more than 24 of those built.

IRM also has CB&Q 481 with those small roomettes.

Bob Kutella

That's right, only 28: five B&O, four CB&Q, one for the MP, four "Lochs" for the NP, four new for the NYC, and ten rebuilt-from-22-roomette-sleeper NYC. You almost need the roster or a scorecard to keep them straight. NP bought four of the NYC cars and a B&O car and renamed them to the Loch series in 1964. To add to the confusion, UP assigned the name "Slumbercoaches" to a pair of ex-PRR 21-roomette cars on the "City of Denver".

In Geoffrey Doughty's book NYC's Lightweight Passenger Cars, Trains and Travel, we are reminded there were also the ten 22 Roomette cars of the Harbor series returned to Budd in 1961 and converted/rebuilt into 16 Roomette, 10 Bedroom economy sleepers known also as ''Sleepercoaches''. Per Doughty, six were still operational as late as early 1996, but were quickly retired and then sold and scrapped. " Perhaps 'sold' indicates one or two may have been preserved. The NYC also had Sleepercoaches built new in 1959. These were sold to the Northern Pacific in 1964, and wound up on Amtrak.

Sam Freeman had 2 B & O Slumber Coaches at Lebanon, N.J., which he sold to Amtrak. I think this was after one of Amtrak's was wrecked on the Montrealer after a beaver dam broke upstream from the tracks.
When I rode from Buffalo to Albany 4/4/71, the PennCentral timetable said Slumber Coach, but the car said New York Central All Room Sleepercoach.

I appreciate your knowledge. This is a large part of what makes RyPN a very worthwhile effort.

I am glad to see that at least two Slumbercoaches have been preserved. From personal observations it seems that sleeping cars generate a lot of interest from the general public.

I've been fascinated by this thread. Growing up in B&O territory and later Amtrak Slumbercoach territory I thought of these cars as somehow fairly common. I never realized how rare the actually were.

All my formative experiences of overnight train travel came on Amtrak slumbercoaches in the 1980s: my first overnight trip on the Captiol Limited ca. 1982, the first and last leg of my first cross-country train trip on the same train in 1984, and a memorable night ride around Horseshoe Curve on Amtrak's Broadway around 1987.

The Capitol of that era was a good train, with dome service and Slumbercoach sleeping accomodations--very much in the spirit of its B&O ancestor. I can still remember my first ride: soaring over the magnificent magnolia cutoff on the B&O, seeing the steel mills on the Monongahela working at night, seeing dawn from the platform in Fort Wayne on the former PRR main during an early-morning station stop, and watching the PRR position-light signals change from the dome on the last leg into Chicago. Hard to belive that former PRR route is broken up now.

As I remember it, the sleeping accomodations in a Slumbercoach were basically similar to a duplex roomette, but even smaller. I think the real difference was the market approach and the fare structure. Slumbercoaches were marketed as a more comfortable option than sitting up in a coach all night, but without the hefty fare increase to a first class railroad ticket required to book Pullman accomodations. I assume they were an attempt fo fight back against the diversion of passengers to air travel then beginning to happen in large numbers.

At least on the B&O, the slumbercoach fare was an add-on fare to a coach ticket. But a roomette required a first class ticket as well as an accommodation charge. I assume the railroad conducter handled the slumbercoach tickets completely, without a Pullman conductor tagging along behind to separately lift the Pullman ticket for the space charge. as on a roomette?

The former "Age of Steam" museum in Dallas has the ex-MP slumbercoach "Southland".

I believe the Gold Coast RR Museum in Miami has the ex-Q "Silver Slumber", acquired from a private party. It was one of the orginal four "Siesta Coaches" built in '56 for the Denver Zephyr.

The ex-Q "Silver Rest" was acquired from Amtrak by a private party in California and scrapped several years ago for parts. The body was in very rough shape, however, having been involved in 2 major accidents during it's lifetime, the first of which was the famous wreck of the North Coast Limited at Granite Lake, Idaho.

The former NYC 16-10 slumbercoach, ex-22 roomette sleeper Toledo Harbor, was scrapped for parts in Pueblo, CO in December of 2007.

Four slumbercoaches are stored in one location in eastern Ohio, owned by 2 private parties. There are three of the ex-NYC 16-10's and one 24-8. One of the 16-10's is for sale for a reasonable price.

Most of the other ex-Amtrak Heritage fleet slumbercoaches still exist in private ownership, but most were acquired for parts. As great as they were for inexpensive overnight travel, they are a hard sell to a private car owner to get Amtrak certified due to the small rooms and the requirement for holding tanks.

The Atlanta Chapter NRHS/Southeastern Railway Museum has the ex-NP 24-8 Loch Arkaig, originally built for the NYC. However, it is sitting on a pair of inside swing hanger trucks from an ex-Wabash Budd-built dome.

The ex-Q "Silver Repose" is at the Tennessee Central Railroad Museum in Nashville.

A private party in Spokane, WA has the ex-NP "Loch Ness".

The ex-Q "Silver Siesta" was sold to a private party for parts after suffering fire damage in the early '80's. It was scrapped circa 1985.

I believe the ex-NP "Loch Lomond" was scrapped by Naparano in NJ circa April '98 after wreck damaged in the early '90's.

The ex-NYC 16-10 "Tonowanda Harbor" was to be used as a crew car on the Marlboro Train and as far as I know is still sitting at Rader Railcar in Denver, sans trucks and underbody equipment.

The ex-NYC "Vermillion Harbor" was sold to a private party and scrapped for parts after suffering severe damage in the big wreck of the Lake Shore LTD that took out a signal bridge circa '94.