From what I have seen, the modelers are the technical fans now. The local NMRA region is the organization that is inviting the active railroaders, the railroad historians, and preservationists to drop by, and oh yes, by the way, show a program that explains the history of some equipment, or explains how it works, or shows how you service or rebuild it, or discusses some aspect of railroad operations. You won't see any technical presentations like that at our closest NRHS chapter, which is still a pretty picture slide showing competition run almost exclusively for the benefit of a couple of the members. That might have something to do with why they are having difficulty getting two dozen people to show up for a meeting in an metro area of about eight million. But its been that way for a long time and they will just continue to slide downhill until they get to the magic number and are no longer a chapter. Will the last person left alive please turn out the lights in the meeting room?

Yes, I have seen some exceptions in the NRHS, chapters like Tri-State and Jersey Central where you can get to see an interesting mix of topics presented by people who can do it without putting everybody to sleep, and they get a good turnout at their meetings, but those chapters aren't in my area.

By the way, the average age of the participants at the NMRA events appears to be about half that of the small group showing up for the local NRHS meetings. Want to find some younger people who might be interested in railroad preservation, I suggest that you get together with the local NMRA region.

I too have greatly appreciated the kind and logical well thought out responses on this thread, and it is for topics like this ( along with so many others ) that RYPN is such a valuable educational tool, as it allows me to see the world through the eyes of others. I am thankful for this opportunity. I, like others, think the NRHS, has a place, however it needs to reinvent itself, and perhaps it requires more of an image makeover than huge structural changes. I use to belong to the Philadelphia chapter, attended some meetings years ago, however in my eyes it lacked something and felt like more of a group of older men reflecting on years past via slides and the like, so in my eyes, it had no place in my life. I am a bit older now, own a heavyweight Amtrak compatible car, and find that with the exception of the RPCA, very few groups really fit the requirements of a younger generation ( or any generation) interested in the preservation of historic railroad equipment. I am not sure how to put my finger on the condition of the NRHS, however it is a positive that some have spoken out so strongly about the positives. Perhaps ( to be perfectly honest ) the NRHS just needs an image makeover, needs to do more as a national organization other than just have a yearly convention. In other words, what worked in the past, likely will not continue to work in the future, as there are just too many other avenues that take people's (both young and old ) attention these days.

Years ago, I remember always looking forward to getting the magazine ( I think it was called Locomotive and Railway Preservation ) ... it existed before the internet made forums like this so valuable, and it allowed one to read the remarkable happenings in this great field of railway preservation. Today, even though technology has advanced so very far in the way we communicate, in some odd way, I feel we have lost a bit ( or perhaps not gained as much as we should have ), as I am not sure railway preservation, has one common means to communicate. Like someone said in an earlier part of this thread, NRHS is also for builders plate collectors, slide shows, etc etc, not just painting that rusty steam engine, or attaching a sign to that caboose next to the depot downtown. However I am still not convinced when I see plenty of equipment owned by many NRHS chapters, and for that matter many museums, I can't understand why we don't do a better job sharing, and understanding our limitations and abilities. Is it that we truly OVERVALUE, the value of some of these cars and equipment. Or is it that the politics of anything that is owned by a group ( either large or small ), that makes it nearly impossible for all to agree that it is time to find a home for something we just can't get around to ever fixing ? I wonder ?

Often people and groups say "if we had the money".... however in this case, I believe that is only a small piece of the problem. This equipment not only needs money, it requires educated (emotionally stable) people to understand what is required, and how to get it accomplished. Without people who can look at a leaking roof on a business car, or the boiler jacketing falling off a steam engine, and say, we need to take proactive steps to repair these items, money alone will not fix it, people ( with proper resources ) will... I have seen it first hand, and I am not just talking NRHS, it applies to museums ( both large and small ) and also equipment that is in private hands. ( which is also not exempt from many problems )

So does the NRHS unite people to do good ( I think the answer is absolutely yes in plenty of cases ), however I suspect like the local industry in town that has a weed covered siding and a disconnected switch, yet its truck docks are full, its time to understand that the world has changed. The NRHS needs to change, or somehow needs to thin out these dormant chapters ( in my eyes especially ones that are the caretakers of equipment ) . Chapters with no address, no news-letters, 5 members, etc etc are the reason the NRHS is so diluted and feels at times so distant. It needs to become a more vibrant, more energy filled, and more of a thing that people believe there is a benefit to belong to. As to be honest, I don't know why I would consider belonging today, and I belong to plenty of groups. Perhaps someone can explain, why someone with an interest in railway preservation should just the NRHS ? Perhaps there are reasons I have failed to see. ( and for the chapters that carry on in these difficult surroundings preserving equipment, you are to be thanked )

Thanks for listening


Dean Levin

The NMRA connection leads to a logical extension - that kids and the younger generations have always enjoyed railroad models. It allows them to tangibly study and understand the behemoth prototypes, that are otherwise too distant and removed from the average neighborhood. I would add to this an intermediate component: that active involvement and interest in preservation may be well assisted by kids exposure to miniature railroads. That is, zoo trains, park trains, and all forms of ride-on railroads. Take for instance the case of young Scott Kennedy at the Swanton Pacific (19" gauge), as reported in the groups April '08 newsletter:

"Newest Certified Conductor/Brakeman

Over the March work weekend, Scott Kennedy became Swanton’s newest certified Conductor/Brakeman. Scott is also Swanton’s youngest certified Conductor/Brakeman, turning 11 right after Al Smith Day this April. Congratulations to Scott for his achievement. Scott has been an active volunteer at Swanton for two years, hardly missing any work weekends in
that time. Scott’s favorite activities at Swanton include driving the motor car, working on the yellow crane truck, helping out on run days as a Conductor/Brakeman, and decorating Swanton for New Year’s Eve. Scott is a member of the track crew, and helps inspect the track and replace ties. He enjoys developing new skills at Swanton and learning from all the other volunteers. "

Included with this was a photo of the young gentleman, in denim conductor's work clothes and appearing quite serious about his work. I could relate to him. My first railfan experience was at age 3 on a 15" gauge railroad featuring Sandley equipment. As I grew, I especially enjoyed visiting 24" zoo railroads and the House of David in Michigan, and later, the Edaville Railroad - each of these provided a sense of reality, that here was a train that was something I could interact with, as an adult would interact with standard gauge equipment. I started volunteering myself at age 12 - primarily in the shops with standard gauge interurban cars.

Perhaps there is someplace for these miniature railroads, in the role for recruiting future volunteers at your full-sized museum. A handful of rail museums feature "grand scale" trains. I'm curious what readers in this forum think of these little brothers.

I agree completely that allowing younger folks to get involved with operation and maintaince of equipment is a key to getting the next generations involved with preservation. At Williams Grove young people were always allowed to do the fun jobs under supervision as well as the less fun ones. The same was true at TVRM. It should come as no suprise these organizations had considerable success finding younger folks to help with the work and pass on the skills to. I think it is destiny for the groups who offer nothing but slide shows and a piece of rotting equipment or two they never have the time to work on to eventually cease to exist. If you want younger people to be involved you must let them be involved. Young people generally have better things to do than sit around watching boring slide shows and will find it either in your organization or elsewhere.

John Bohon

We have a "zoo train" at the Heart of Dixie RRM. It is a steamer that formerly ran at the Birmingham Zoo. It runs a winding 1/4 mile through the woods and is very popular with our visitors. We even have adults remark they remember riding it as a child at the zoo.

We also have the "Park Train" that was formerly at Rickwood Caverns state park. It is currently stored, but we have plans to eventually at it to our mix of available activities.

We have several teens that are very involved in our organization. 3 of them are excellent car hosts on our std guuge excursion trains.

Bill Houston

Boy did you hit a nerve with me on this one. I cut my teeth helping one of the members of my local RR club build his 7 1/2" ga. live steam railroad, including a couple of pieces of rolling stock. I'm not the only one in the club to go that route either, and several of us ended up working in full-size railroading and preservation.

I think there definitely is a place for the smaller gauges in attracting kids into the hobby/avocation/career. I still enjoy being around the little stuff, and marvel at and admire the skill it takes to build it right.

I find it curious that many railroad museums have virtually no model railroad equipment on display. Some types of presentation can be handled quite effectively with a diorama, perhaps even adapting some commercially produced model railroad structures for subjects where they are appropriate. The locomotive and equipment builders used models for a variety of purposes, so the use of models is not inappropriate to a museum. Building displays of this type is one way to help draw modelers into the preservation field. Are conventional model railroad scale structures and equipment considered "not good enough" for some museums?

MX