I think they are also in the business of selling RR themed Holiday Cards
advertised via direct mail to other businesses and the General Public.

I would respectfully suggest--with absolutely no insult intended to the hosts or moderators of other internet railway forums--that much of the problem has to do with the so-called "signal-to-noise" ratio of a great many internet forums of ALL types, not just railroad forums. To a large extent "White's Law" of "scholarship is inversely proportional to importance" applies even more to the internet than to industrial history.

Just go to a large number of rail discussion forums, such as those at Trains.com (Kalmbach's), Railroad.net (hi, Bob!), TrainOrders.com, and who knows where else. Try to find wheat in all that chaff. Furthermore, the propensity for people to insist on, for example, posting every day's train movements along one line, or to demand that Norfolk Southern reinstate the steam excursion program, or that Reading 2100 be all but forcibly repatriated to Pennsylvania from private ownership, or that "eminnat domane" be used to restore a rail line for service, does much to make a case that the internet is only a haven for crackpots, delusionists, and conspiracy theorists. Why open a nasty can of worms by, just for example, starting what should be a rational discussion of the NRM-Green Bay "deaccessioning program" only to watch it turn into a mud-slinging fest as often-groundless accusations are hurled and people who have never even visited Wisconsin presume to know more about the condition of a particular car than the NRM's own staff?

Furthermore, there ARE instances where much trouble arises from the presumed "representation" of points of view online, and many organizations and corporations of late have been so cautious of any viewpoint expressed to be potentially misconstrued or "not being company policy" that they have been overly quick to reprimand or suspend people that "leak" news that has not been "approved" by management (no matter how innocuous or obvious). Jim Wrinn's employment as a Kalmbach employee, and Steve Barry's with Carstens (both rail magazine publishers) are but two obvious examples.

Yet another aspect of the "rules" mentality is shown in an article in today's Washington Post regarding enforcement of protocol over government computers during a political campaign season:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... d=sec-tech

Now, granted, discussing the merits of independent museum policy or locomotive restoration by private groups on your own time is a darned far cry from promoting a political candidate from a government computer at work. But, just as some random made-up example, could someone realistically see the possibility of an off-the-cuff internet posting being misconstrued and being waved as "evidence" in some Ashwaubenon city council meeting that affects, say, a property-tax exemption or a proposed city grant? "They're not a museum at all--they're just a scrapyard operating without a business license!"

The other issue, of course, is that some of us would rather spend the precious spare time swapping out trucks, or taking a volunteer shift, or cataloging books and photos, than hang out online.

Hey, at least we're not swamped with genealogical search requests, or posts asking "ne1 got nude pix brittnay speers let me no".......

But it is the business model of museum to collect historic artifacts.

If anything, the problem is lack of sustainable storage so the museum's shop can keep ahead of the oxidation.

I'm talking about carbarns.

And land - you need a place to build the carbarns.

And railroad - no point owning land adjacent to somebody else's rails.

And carbarns don't need to be anything fancy. Every museum has a cold-storage deadline that hasn't been touched in 10 years and won't be in another 10. Carbarns for that stuff don't need yard leads or even doors, at least at first. Shoofly it in, and wall it up in the barn until the interest and budget is there to restore it - at which time you build the doors and yard lead.

I would use different definitions. In my lexicon, that's the mission, not the business model.

The business model is how you raise revenue to pay for the care of those artifacts--including barns and land and those other good things you mentioned.

What I am saying is our business model at the moment does not raise enough money to pay for barns and land etc. for everything we would like to save.

So, there will be some selection.

I just today had correspondence with someone who was present at a meeting between a representative of the National Railroad Museum and the donor of of one of the items on the deaccession list. I'm sorry I'm not at liberty to say who or what piece, but I can confirm that this is happening.

I can also add a bit more information about some of the items on the list that was published in this thread, from personal knowledge of the NRM collection:

"M&SP and ST M (locomotive) awaiting disposal"

This is the body and trucks, less prime mover and motors, of WC Ltd., formerly Soo Line GP-30 715. This unit rides on ALCO AAR type B road trucks that came from a trade-in FA-1. There are now two complete identical locomotives in museums, compliments of CN; one at the Lake Superior Railroad Museum in Duluth, and one at the Colfax Railway Museum in Colfax WI. The unit in Duluth has been refurbished and is operational. I'm not sure of the continued value of a display body shell.

"M&ST and ST M (hopper) awaiting disposal"

This is Soo Line ore car 80374, an early steel ore car. I don't have the built date or builder off hand, but could look them up if someone needs them.

"Pittsburgh Shawmut and Northern (caboose) awaiting disposal"

This car came to NRM as Soo Line 593, formerly DSS&A 593, originally from PS&N, number unknown (to me at least.)

"wooden boxcar awaiting disposal"

This is a mock-up of a Menasha Woodenware Co. 1890's era boxcar, built on the frame of a 1920's era single sheathed boxcar. The lettering scheme will be familiar to anyone who was a model railroader during the fifties and sixties, as this piece is a copy of the LaBelle kit.

Dennis,

Wasn't the 715 Given to the Soo Line Historical Society?, Than some type of deal worked out with NRM? I do not recall the whole story on this. Maybe some one in the Soo Line Historical Socity can Chime in?

Mike Slater
Western Union Junction RR Museum, Sturtevant, WI

Yes it was. I am somewhat familiar with the donation, as I had been on the society BoD several years previously, and during my brief tenure I had been adamant about not acquiring large railroad assets; I felt the society did not have the income base to bear the liability of owning such items. When this came up I was no longer on the BoD, but as I recall from discussions with current board members at the time, the deal with NRM was already inked before WC Ltd. ever made the donation. It seems that WC did not want to donate directly to NRM, but was OK with the deal that was worked out. WC gifted the loco to SLHTS, SLHTS gifted it to NRM, and WC shipped it directly to NRM.

The impetus came, I believe, from the society. We were concerned that the GP-30's were up for retirement, and none would be saved. The Soo GP-30 fleet was, if you'll recall, somewhat unique in that all twenty or so units rode on ALCO "B" road trucks from traded in FA-1's. As it was, all WC Ltd. would donate was an incomplete locomotive, as I recall after all these years, the prime mover, generator, and motors were salvaged before the unit was painted for donation.

The actual donation was a rather gala affair, the Society's annual convention was scheduled to be in Fond du Lac that year, concurrent with a fan trip run by the 261 group. We were having trouble finding a large enough banquet facility, and the WC had just cleared out one bay of the shop, painted it, and installed new lighting to turn it into a storeroom. Mr. Burkhart graciously offered the use of the room, and a shop tour. When we arrived that evening, the banquet area was separated from the rest of the shop by two freshly painted WC locomotives. The marked aisle to the banquet lead right between the pilots of an SD-40 and GP-30 715. After the dinner and Mr. Burkhart's remarks, he then announced the donation of the 715. After the ceremonies were over, we filed out to the turn table, where the 261 had been hostled, and they spun her under the lights for all to see. It was quite the night. Mr. Burkhadt certainly knew how to put on a show.

Thinking back, the lack of preserved GP-30's has not come to pass. CN has donated two complete engines, one to the Lake Superior Railroad Museum in Duluth, and one to the Colfax Railway Museum in Colfax, WI. The engine in Duluth has been refurbished and runs trips on the North Shore Scenic. I guess all things considered, the donation of the 715 did what it was supposed to do; that is ensure that one of the breed was saved. Now that two operational units are preserved, maybe 715 really is surplus. I know that the SLHTS is trying to place it elsewhere, but I'm not aware that there have been any takers as of yet.

Here in Southern Calif. BNSF is still using GP30's in revenue service. They were already second-level power when I worked for Santa Fe in 1970, and 38 years (and a couple of rebuilds) later they're still working the locals. What's even more mind-bending is seeing a newer Santa Fe diesel working at Orange Empire Ry. Museum today: ATSF FP45 #98 (nee 108) EMD 1967. It wasn't even on the drawing board when I joined OERM.
And I recall seeing UP GP30 #844 at the Boulder City Museum--it's a museum piece and 4-8-4 #844 is still on the UP roster. Come to think of it, OERM's 2-6-2 steamer, Ventura County #2 is very much alive, while VC 2 (a GE 70 ton diesel) is long since gone to scrap.
Definitely in the "would you believe" category.

Dennis,
Thanks very much for the additional information.

I visited Green Bay last July and snapped photos of just about everything that was in decent lighting. Yes I have some angles on the Manatee River. It looked like a typical Pullman streamliner, with some issues of loose sheeting and rust streaks. I don't know if it was in very poor condition, but it looked in need of a little attention anyway.

See for yourself.



http://picasaweb.google.com/anderolin/NationalRailwayMuseum

The displays of railroad life in models were quite interesting, and the large open barn for gatherings in front of a GG1 seemed like a decent display arrangement without going to the extreme example of California State.

Olin

Maybe they should dispose of some equipment. Looks to be like there is more there than they can take care of.

One thing I did not see in those pictures is the restoration shop. Where is it?

Its the building in the photo that has the Lackawanna/Kettle Moraine car. It was closed up and I did not try to venture over there. A few pieces were outside of this building too. It may also be in the photo that has the C&NW bilevel. I would say this museum is in a development phase that is emphasizing the smaller displays, buildings and grounds, rather than the collection of equipment. However thinning the herd of equipment needing work, is one of many steps towards a nicely restored collection... I hope they will consider contacting other museums as the NRM proceeds with its rationalization.