From the Ogden Standard-Examiner. Editorial comment: God bless the UP folks.

Games trains come bearing gifts

Ogden receives vintage engine, $1 museum rent

Wed, Feb 6, 2002

By CHARLES F. TRENTELMAN
Standard-Examiner staff

OGDEN -- After hauling the Olympic flame more than 3,000 miles around the nation, two specially painted Union Pacific engines brought Olympic gold to Ogden.

The first piece of gold was a vintage diesel-electric railroad engine, a gift from Union Pacific to Union Station's rail museum. It looks a bit dirty and rusty, but Union Station Director Bob Geier said its historic value makes it glitter.

The other was forgiveness of Ogden City"s $50,000 a year lease on the land on which Union Station stands. Geier and Mayor Matthew Godfrey agreed that was a gift of Olympic proportions, both for the city and the museum"s future. The railroad gave the building itself to Ogden 30 years ago.

More than 100 Top of Utah residents turned out to see the special blue and gold painted Olympic engines at Union Station Tuesday morning. The engines have finished their job pulling the Olympic flame around the United States.

The special car the flame rode in is now in Salt Lake City, where it will be used as part of the opening ceremonies. The flame itself arrives in Ogden today.

Jeff Verhaal, vice president of Union Pacific Railroad, came to Ogden to make the joint presentation of the gifts.

The engine he brought is the first SD54 produced, one of a huge fleet of 345 that the Southern Pacific Railroad started buying in 1966. Because it is the first of its kind, it has considerable historic value, said Daniel Kuhn, a Utah railroad historian.

Verhaal said the two gifts represent Union Pacific"s continuing commitment to the city.

"Ogden holds a spot in my heart because I started railroading here 35 years ago," he said.

With the merger of the Union Pacific and Southern Pacific railroads, Ogden gained an even more important role because it was the point where the two rail pioneers met and thus occupies a key position geographically. The railroad just spent $14 million upgrading its facilities in Ogden to meet the demands of the new role.

Verhaal said Union Pacific is lowering the cost of the lease on the land on which Union Station stands to $1 a year as a reward for the city"s commitment to railroad history.

The railroad gives many gifts of land, buildings and equipment to various entities, he said, which then don"t get used the way they were intended.

"This depot is being used for exactly what was intended when it was donated," he said, "and because of that we decided to continue to support it with the decision to donate the land. We felt the money that paid the lease could be more effectively used."

Godfrey said the $50,000 a year the city will save "is money we are now able to use to help the museum and help rebuild downtown."

He said how much will go directly to Union Station, and how much will go to other projects, is something the city administration and City Council will have to settle in the next budget year.



Wrinnbo@aol.com

The Ogden museum has a nice little collection, including UP GE turbine #16, UP DDA40X #6936, UP 4-8-4 #833, D&RGW narrow-gauge 2-8-0 #223, and GM "Train of Tomorrow" dome-obs "Moon Glow". I can't say I think much of how the collection is maintained or displayed, though. Quite a few significant pieces are rusting away in various states of disassembly (including #223), aborted or improper cosmetic restorations are evident on others (witness the SP and UP 2-8-0s that are there), and there's quite a bit of non-restored "junk" of lesser significance sitting around: ex-Air Force cars, M of W cars and the like. The outside display area appears to rarely be open and little is evident in the way of interpratative or descriptive signs.

I'm sure the Ogden museum faces the same challenges common to most museums: lack of funds, lack of manpower/volunteers, organizational politics, etc., so I can't be too critical. It would be interesting to know, though, if they have a master plan for acquisition, preservation, fund raising, deaccession, etc., as has been suggested on this board time and time again, or if they're just grabbing anything they can get their hands on. As it is now, I don't see how the museum could be very appealing or inviting to possible visitors.

> From the Ogden Standard-Examiner. Editorial
> comment: God bless the UP folks.

> Games trains come bearing gifts

> Ogden receives vintage engine, $1 museum
> rent

> Wed, Feb 6, 2002

> By CHARLES F. TRENTELMAN
> Standard-Examiner staff

> OGDEN -- After hauling the Olympic flame
> more than 3,000 miles around the nation, two
> specially painted Union Pacific engines
> brought Olympic gold to Ogden.

> The first piece of gold was a vintage
> diesel-electric railroad engine, a gift from
> Union Pacific to Union Station's rail
> museum. It looks a bit dirty and rusty, but
> Union Station Director Bob Geier said its
> historic value makes it glitter.

> The other was forgiveness of Ogden
> City"s $50,000 a year lease on the land
> on which Union Station stands. Geier and
> Mayor Matthew Godfrey agreed that was a gift
> of Olympic proportions, both for the city
> and the museum"s future. The railroad
> gave the building itself to Ogden 30 years
> ago.

> More than 100 Top of Utah residents turned
> out to see the special blue and gold painted
> Olympic engines at Union Station Tuesday
> morning. The engines have finished their job
> pulling the Olympic flame around the United
> States.

> The special car the flame rode in is now in
> Salt Lake City, where it will be used as
> part of the opening ceremonies. The flame
> itself arrives in Ogden today.

> Jeff Verhaal, vice president of Union
> Pacific Railroad, came to Ogden to make the
> joint presentation of the gifts.

> The engine he brought is the first SD54
> produced, one of a huge fleet of 345 that
> the Southern Pacific Railroad started buying
> in 1966. Because it is the first of its
> kind, it has considerable historic value,
> said Daniel Kuhn, a Utah railroad historian.

> Verhaal said the two gifts represent Union
> Pacific"s continuing commitment to the
> city.

> "Ogden holds a spot in my heart because
> I started railroading here 35 years
> ago," he said.

> With the merger of the Union Pacific and
> Southern Pacific railroads, Ogden gained an
> even more important role because it was the
> point where the two rail pioneers met and
> thus occupies a key position geographically.
> The railroad just spent $14 million
> upgrading its facilities in Ogden to meet
> the demands of the new role.

> Verhaal said Union Pacific is lowering the
> cost of the lease on the land on which Union
> Station stands to $1 a year as a reward for
> the city"s commitment to railroad
> history.

> The railroad gives many gifts of land,
> buildings and equipment to various entities,
> he said, which then don"t get used the
> way they were intended.

> "This depot is being used for exactly
> what was intended when it was donated,"
> he said, "and because of that we
> decided to continue to support it with the
> decision to donate the land. We felt the
> money that paid the lease could be more
> effectively used."

> Godfrey said the $50,000 a year the city
> will save "is money we are now able to
> use to help the museum and help rebuild
> downtown."

> He said how much will go directly to Union
> Station, and how much will go to other
> projects, is something the city
> administration and City Council will have to
> settle in the next budget year.


davew833@yahoo.com

It's where Big Boy 4018 properly belongs. I bet someone could make a documentary film about relocating it there.
Nah, it'll never happen.

I'll admit, I was a bit disapointed that I couldn't visit the locomotive displays, but, mark me if I'm wrong, UP 843, and the D&RG consolidation are the locomotives that used to be in Salt Lake. Would they even be in one piece if the museum hadn't acquired them? The museum is young. I can't believe that they don't have a master plan. (I believe parts of it are on display in the station lobby.) It's a young institution, and they seem to be making significant strides towards improving their site. Is there a goal that is to be achieved by all the rampnat criticism that seems to be going around lately, or has no one anything better to do than to tell other people what their museums are doing wrong? Even with a master plan and a policy for acquisitions, preservation, and "deaccessions," dealing with railroad equipment is a vast enough undertaking that it can take years. Lets see what we can do to help our local museums rather than just pointing our fingers at them.

Sncerely,

David Ackerman


david_ackerman@yahoo.com

I have made several visits to Ogden over the past decade and every time I see better conditions and improvements. There is a small but dedicated bunch of folks there working to make it a success. Again, give them some time and resources and check back in a few years.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Heaven's friends!!!

The UP saves the first SD-45 and makes a $ commitment, and RYPN fills with griping about how the budding museum isn't ideal yet?

Even the UP says the Ogden guys are doing better than some other historic sites UP has donated to.

Let's see... historic unit preserved (donated!), depot lease at $1 and the host road seems to be happy with the museum folks...

Where's the problem? Where IS the problem?

Baffled in Jersey

trains@robertjohndavis.com

In re-reading my previous post I realize the tone is more negative than I intended it to be. I'm as excited as anyone to see new acquisitions like the SD45. I visit the Ogden museum regularly to see what's new and different. There are many positive aspects to the operation and I'm sure many visitors find it an attractive and interesting place to visit.

In my previous post, I was really only hoping to inspire some comments about the Ogden museum from some of you well-connected posters with "inside" knowledge about why some things are the way they are.

For example, why was the cosmetic restoration of SP S-8 0-6-0 #1297, begun in 1993, aborted with half of the locomotive stripped and half red-primered? Was there an asbestos issue or something which prevented completion? Why was companion UP 0-6-0 #4436 which now sits in front of the museum cosmetically restored with the wrong style numbering? A small matter, I know, but is there an interesting story there? Why has the D&RGW narrow-gauge 2-8-0 been sitting off-site in pieces for the past 10 years? What's the deal with the "Moon Glow?" five or so years ago, it was slated to be incorporated into an indoor display. Now it sits in outdoor storage at Hill Air Force Base.

How do these and other items fit into the museum's plans? I've seen the nice model they display in the lobby with the proposed roundhouse and the scale "Big Boy" and other large steam. It's been there for 15 years. What's the real story? What does the future hold? (And when?)

As a knowledgeable railfan and fare-paying visitor to the museum, issues like this pique my curiosity. Is it wrong to ask these questions in a forum like RyPN where I might find intelligent answers from people who know? I'm sorry that my curiosity came across as criticism...


davew833@yahoo.com

Acting as one of the Interchange's administrators I have pulled "scapegoat's" response to this thread. Though it was a close call I felt that in the balalnce it violated the "no flaming" covenant in the terms of service for the Interchange. The poster is welcome to re-post raising the same issues in more temperate langauge. I also note that posters in general who do not choose to follow the Interchanges "no screennames" policy are less likely to get the benefit of the doubt on close calls.

eledbetter@rypn.org

> In re-reading my previous post I realize the
> tone is more negative than I intended it to
> be.
> In my previous post, I was really only
> hoping to inspire some comments about the
> Ogden museum from some of you well-connected
> posters with "inside" knowledge
> about why some things are the way they are.

One way to find out is to simply ask the museum people. I have always found them to be friendly and informative and they don't try to hide anything AFAIK.

> For example, why was the cosmetic
> restoration of SP S-8 0-6-0 #1297, begun in
> 1993, aborted with half of the locomotive
> stripped and half red-primered? Was there an
> asbestos issue or something which prevented
> completion?
>Why was companion UP 0-6-0 #4436
> which now sits in front of the museum
> cosmetically restored with the wrong style
> numbering? A small matter, I know, but is
> there an interesting story there?

I know that both of these locomotives underwent asbestos abatement while still sitting in a city park. Both engines were heavily vandalized and badly neglected during their tenure in the park, and until the museum got them, there was serious discussion of scrapping them by the city.

>Why has
> the D&RGW narrow-gauge 2-8-0 been
> sitting off-site in pieces for the past 10
> years?

The small band of volunteers that started that project (with the usual claims of restoring it to operation and running it, etc.) got deeply into it, fo8und it was in far worse shape than they thought and required huge amounts of work. Interst dwindled, and ther it sits. Same story can be repeated about dozens of other projects nationwide.

>What's the deal with the "Moon
> Glow?" five or so years ago, it was
> slated to be incorporated into an indoor
> display. Now it sits in outdoor storage at
> Hill Air Force Base.

Moon Glow is a badly-deteriorated shell of a car. It sat in an Idaho junkyard in terible condition for 30 years before the museum got it. The interior is gone as is all glass and much of the mechaincal stuff. It sat in the weather with no windows for decades. It will be a million dollar project to make it presentable, probably a multi-million dollar project to completely restore it. They have been working toward getting grants and other funding for this project, but until enough money is found, there is no need to start the project only to have it end up like the narrow gauge 2-8-0.

> How do these and other items fit into the
> museum's plans? I've seen the nice model
> they display in the lobby with the proposed
> roundhouse and the scale "Big Boy"
> and other large steam. It's been there for
> 15 years. What's the real story? What does
> the future hold? (And when?)
> As a knowledgeable railfan and fare-paying
> visitor to the museum, issues like this
> pique my curiosity. Is it wrong to ask these
> questions in a forum like RyPN where I might
> find intelligent answers from people who
> know? I'm sorry that my curiosity came
> across as criticism...

You probably are not wrong, but I think you'd be much better off asking the museum leadership or it's board. Asking first in this forum implies (probably unjustifiably) that you have been unable to get any answers or information out of the museum itself. Maybe you should ask them to post a guest editorial, such as Molly from MOT did. That would inform a lot of people.

It's worth a try.

Regarding D&G+RGW #223
> The small band of volunteers that started
> that project (with the usual claims of
> restoring it to operation and running it,
> etc.) got deeply into it, fo8und it was in
> far worse shape than they thought and
> required huge amounts of work. Interst
> dwindled, and ther it sits. Same story can
> be repeated about dozens of other projects
> nationwide.

The group seems to keep making small progress on the project. Most work of recent has been on the tender and its frame.

> Moon Glow is a badly-deteriorated shell of a
> car. It sat in an Idaho junkyard in terible
> condition for 30 years before the museum got
> it. The interior is gone as is all glass and
> much of the mechaincal stuff. It sat in the
> weather with no windows for decades. It will
> be a million dollar project to make it
> presentable, probably a multi-million dollar
> project to completely restore it. They have
> been working toward getting grants and other
> funding for this project, but until enough
> money is found, there is no need to start
> the project only to have it end up like the
> narrow gauge 2-8-0.

Last year when I visited the museum and talked with executive director Bob Geier. He specificaly asked me if I know of possible granting sources for restoration funds for the MOON GLOW. Unforunately, I do not know of such sources. I suggested that it would come in many small grants -- not in a single large grant. And like many to railroad museums they will come because of special relationships with the donors or the foundations.

Brian Norden



bnorden49@earthlink.net

Certainly I must admit to not keep up well with the "Western" preservation scene, but isn't this donation somewhat of a good omen about corporate UP? I seem to recall at an RPCA or TRAIN convention a few years ago it being made clear that UP had decided not to donate equipment gift any longer. The speaker seemed to imply that part of this decision was based upon the condition that some of the previous gifts were kept in and the image that it presented about UP. Obviously, they have a real commitment to company history.

Is this a bad memory on my part or is this the first donation from UP of this kind in a while?

David Farlow
Whitewater Vallet RR

Heisler
hudson.industries@worldnet.att.net