You're right-my mistake. You just can't drive interstate. Whether you can haul hazmat or passengers depends on state laws. Here in AZ, I don't belive that you can do either at 18.

Chris,

I think of those nights now and then with the 8 car rotation. We had a great time and moved a lot of people. And, for all the miles run and people moved, not even a scratch was reported. Technology and rules are needed, but sometimes they can replace thougth for gray areas and lull people into a false sense of security because they believe all is safe because of said rules and technolgy will always protect them in all cases.

Here's another story on a railroad, but stupidity from another angle. I came across this while searching for an unrealated news story. I relayed the story to my wife and she looked at me like I had three heads. No further comment is needed...

http://www.wfsb.com/news/16418055/detail.html

One possible cause for the green line crash that has not been mentioned is the operator had an episode of microsleep.

That's why it's not a good idea in an operating museum to have a large solid heavy object at the end of the operating line. At one museum the track extends for miles past the end of the trolley wire. After an operator was affected by microsleep, all that was needed was a diesel locomotive to pull the car back under the trolley wire. The operator apparently dozed off while standing at the controller. After a very thorough physical examination, the operator's doctor said that microsleep was the most likely cause of this incident.

Few museums have the luxury of miles of track past the end of of the train or car ride. For most musuem operations loose sand, dirt, or ballast after the end of rail might be a good idea.

How is your museum equipped? Food for thought.

At present, the wire ends at each end of our street railway line. Run off the end of the track and the motors will stop-how far you'll go depends on your speed. Both ends of track at present are on relatively level ground, so you won't go far.

Our operation has three hour shifts, mostly due to the extreme heat in the summertime. Occasionally some of us will split shift, working six hours with a three hour break for meals and rest.

I concur with your statement Dave. Too many railroads are not being run by railroaders> I think it's more about that us grey beards have the experience and the knowledge to know what is in the rule book, what's not there,and the sense to not jeopardize ourselves with corporate stupidity. Guys just off the street do not have the "institutional" knowledge, so they can be told just about anything. Corporates tend to treat rules as suggestions rather than absolutes...until someone is either hurt or killed then they attempt to foist blame on the employee before the lawsuits focus attention on the company. Railroading,excursion and otherwise,is changing, and not necessarily for the better.

Who remembers the Metra engineer that run through the 10 mph crossover at 69 mph? I found it odd that the final ruling said nothing about the engineer's cell phone usage. The guy was reported to have been a techno-junkie. The head on at Dorchester in north Texas had shown the crews were on their phones while the train was moving. I can keep going with incident after incident of this poor behavior.

This legislation has reached the level of the feds requiring the individual to be liable (monetarily) for his/her actions. If they had their way, it would have been law in early April. The impact on volunteer/tourist operations will be huge the first time some guy "playing around" tears something up...

The operator's phone records will be subpoenaed. Count on it.

The cell phones are the "second device" or "backup" to the railroad radio, required by operating rules. And in some areas, cellphone coverage is better than the railroad radio (dead spots, out-of-range with 5 watt portables, etc). Having one on your person while in train or engine service is just about necessary these days. I have the phone numbers of four different lineside police departments programmed into mine, for example. So, they should not be condemned out-of-hand.

That said, there is NO excuse for "yakking" about non-immediate railroad biz on a cell phone while operating a locomotive, trolley car, MOW machine. And even taking a "radio" train order/Form D/track warrant requires the operator to stop, or have the brakeman take the order.

Howard P.

MP 6, NAUG

I recall also seeing at a museum, a wooden arrangement to lift the trolley pole off the end of the trolley wire before it tangled itself in the pull-offs, yokes and 3-bolt clamps that tied off the end of wire.

What about a signal system in the cab? It could be an intercom, signal whistle or anything that allows communication. A buzz to tell the engineer to go. I am being a bit rambuncious here, but how many years did the railroads operate without radios and cell phones? No, I am not advocating a complete return to the "old days", but maybe the responsibility level that the "old days" had attached to them... What is the motivation if you can collect your job insurance and more or less have a paid vacation for damaging, hurting or even worst?

Mind you, what ever the final ruling is on this issue, it will trickle down to the tourist/volunteer operations.

We operate both with poles and pantographs. On the Pan cars, if you go off the wire it'll spring up-some risk of snagging span wires. On the pole car, it has a catcher at one end and a retriever at the other. Pole will bounce up and catch or retract depending on which way you're going.

Many street railways do employ buzzers or bells for intra car communication. Our Belgian tram is outfitted with signal buzzers that the conductor can use to communicate with the operator. Our Japanese car has interior bells mounted at either end that the conductor can use to signal the operator.

As for cell phones, the railroads that I have dealt with have never permitted them to be used as back ups for AAR radios where train movements are concerned. When I was on the TVRM, our NS bound trains were specifically prohibited from using cell phones to communicate with the operator/dispatcher regarding train movements. Reason for that? It's too much hassle for the railroads to do the paperwork to get their phone lines recorded. If you use the radio to communicate with the operator/dispatcher, that gets recorded so that it's available for review in case of an incident.

Going back to communications between members of the train crew, I had many times that we had multiple trains working on the same frequency. If I thought it was getting too crowded, I would simply tell the enginemen to look back for signals. When in doubt, take the safest course of action.

Of course, such complicated work requires that everyone understand their position and work together competently. The enginemen I worked with understood that on our railroad, the conductor is the boss-his instructions are not to be questioned or disobeyed unless they would result in a dangerous situation or violation of the rules. Conductors had an expectation of the enginemen to know their business and that the same would be expected of us. I knew that if I made a bad judgment call on the management of my train, upper level management would let their displeasure be known quickly. Mind you, I occasionally had some real good "discussions" with management about certain matters.

Amen Mr. Walker....

I have to completely disagree with the previously stated assertion that age is a major factor in many railroad incidents. Perhaps competence and maturity are to blame in part, but the claim that this incident is directly linked to age is a complete fallacy.

Consider the following: In order to meet rising demand for railroad jobs wherein the most senior levels of employees are retiring at an astounding rate, who is available to fill these gaps? Neophytes to the employment market, such as recent college and/or high school grads are often the ones solicited to fulfill these employment gaps. Corporations quite frequently do not always find enough internal candidates to promote to various roles where seniority would be a plus. Yes, it is true training and experience are major players in the quality of a railroad employee, especially an engineer, but to blame this solely on age is unwise.

Furthermore, it has been my experience that many of the younger individuals with whom I have worked have expressed a far greater comprehension and adherence to railroad rules than many of their senior counterparts. This is not to say all younger employees fit this mold, but the stereotype that youth is incompetent is an antiquated belief that should be abandoned.

Granted, there are quite a few "old heads" on this forum, and are quite frequently found within this field; however, today's society necessitates placing aside such long-held beliefs, and embracing new ideals. Instead of pointing the proverbial finger at youth and dismissing such individuals as "incompetent," try encouraging an increased understanding and acceptance of company or railroad rules and policies, and you will find many youngsters will be quite responsive to the change.

Paralleling this situation, many in the industry have solicited advice on increasing the youth turnout at preservation functions. This advice is the key -- allow them some room to grow and a chance to do well. Obviously as with anything else, mistakes will be made in the learning process, but if given a chance to be guided into more responsibility, a positive outcome will surely result.

I have to agree with Dave on this one. I myself being a 19 year old student engineer for a major commuter railroad operating trains into NYC. I think that the stereotype of age being the problem is a load of crap. Running with some of the "ol' heads" I notice less regard for the rules with them then when I run with an engineer who has only been out of class for a year. Age has nothing to do with it its all about how seriously you take the job.

Have any of you guys taken a look at who is working for the class-1s lately? The older guys are retiring fast, and they've only recently been hiring in any mass quantities.

That 21 yr old you see at the store? He may just be a class-1 hogger, or a conductor that can hang with the best of them. Don't let age fool you.

It is all situation awareness. Don't use your phone when it interferes with your attention or your duty. Although they do come in handy a lot out here. But this isn't your father's railroad...