Like the commerical says, "we all do dumb things. Paying too much for car insurance shouldn't be one of them.." Driving just south of Smyrna DE yesterday on my way to work in the right hand lane, an NS construction truck passed me on the left side and then put his left turn signal on to CUT ME OFF!! Then a few moments later, he put on his RIGHT turn signal to move to the LEFT lane!! If you're reading this buddy, you either have a BAD short in your electrical system or if you were just horsing around you're a jerk! Talk about dumb things!!!

Why did NS cancel their steam program and what is the REAL reason behind disallowing any steam locomotives on their lines, even if it is just a ferry move?
They have dissapointed tons of people by A not allowing steam on their rails and B discontinued their steam program. With all the talk of steam locomotives being either restored or operable, they are making it increasingly harder to move much less operate steam in the east. I'll bet that Uncle Pete would allow a steam locomotive to run on their property, well, if the price was right...right? How about BNSF? They had the 4449 run on their rails not too long ago and she's an Espee engine!
If and when all the big steamers in the east get up and running again, where are they going TO run? NS won't allow it! Glad I listened to everyone last year when they said that NS and family don't mix! I have been working happily in a hotel as a night manager for the past year since I posted my concerns about working for NS as an Extra Board Conductor. This way, I still get home time with My Wife and my hours are set!
I have heard from another employee of NS here in DE (He'd like to remain unknown) that NOT working for NS was a wise choice. Does anyone else feel that way? Not regarding their steam program, or lack thereof, but in general.
Again, why won't they allow steam locos? [/b]

one word:

LIABILITY

The world is too sue-happy to let someone put their toys on NS' tracks. Besides, there is enough hassle handling the current traffic without having old #97 breaking down on the single track, delaying the UPS train.

Hi,

A number of reasons.

* insane insurance rates.
* new officials were not enamored with the memory of steam as the Claytors were.
* Reducing crew size and overall personnel downsizing.
* interference with freight.
* rising costs to maintain the steamers - parts that had been off-the-shelf in the 1950's had to be custom forged in the 1990's.
* unwillingness to gain shipper's good will by using steam and allowing some shippers free passes.
* deregulation and the growth in freight traffic.
* finding riding cars still in good shape.

I do not believe that any ONE item killed the steam program. I believe it was a combination of a number of reasons that had been a positive under older administrations and become an overall negative under the new administrations.

I have heard that Southern (now NS) regreted single tracking most of the Atlanta-DC mainline in the 1950's and 1960's. At the time, the second track was a tax drain due to out of date tax laws concerning usage of land. There were no railbanking programs at the time.

Now that the traffic has increased to the point where the mainline is near capacity in most places and (as I understand it) NS has been looking to state governments to help them out in replacing the second track.

It was a terrible loss regardless of of the reason(s).

Doug vV

Steve, Doug and all,

If you take some time and surf the net, you will find subtle indications that Wick Moorman, the current NS CEO, is much more in tune with our beliefs that the heritage of NS is an asset, not a liability. Look at the recent restoration of the heritage F units a year or two ago. Will we see the return of the NS steam program? Probably not. Will we possibly see ferry moves over NS for the occassional steam move to some other excursion venue? Quite possible. We all need to accept the fact that NS will probably never return to the level of steam activity they once had. I might be proven wrong, but let's not waste time and energy on it now.

The boys in Ft. Wayne have a lot of irons in the fire and hopefully we'll see her out and about in the not too distant future. 1225 continues to make select trips throughout Michigan, most recently over RailAmerica at their request, even. Andy Mueller's 425 Pacific is running again. The Ohio Central is restoring another Super Power Berkshire! The Soo Line Pacific 2719 is making long distance runs on the old DM&IR line in MN. This is just some of the activity in the east. And there are more. We should be thankful that things are really better now than they were 3 or 4 years ago when it comes to larger mainline steam.

Rob Gardner

The premise of your question is false - NS has allowed, and continues to allow, steam locomotives to move on its rails.

4501 traveled from Chattanooga to NS' Jellico line for filming "Rocket Boys" in 1997.

NS delivered NKP 765 to the Chicago, Fort Wayne & Eastern for its break-in runs in 2006, and last fall NS agreed to move NKP 765 from Fort Wayne to the Ohio Central (that trip was canceled for other reasons).

NS moved NKP 763 from Roanoke, VA, to Columbus, OH, last fall.

NS moved N&W 611 and N&W 1218 to the Roanoke Shops anniversary last fall.

TVRM regularly operates 2-8-0 610 on NS trackage in Chattanooga on its way to Summerville, GA, and has for years.

There are probably several other examples - these are just off the top of my head.

JAC

Spencer runs their train ride on NS track in the old Spencer Yard on an almost daily basis.

John Bohon

Once again the real world of railroading is deeper and more complex then any railfan can understand.

I absolutely agree that the current NS administration seems to be leaning more towards its history. For instance, the recent move of 611 (dead) to the shops for public display.

For me, even a fan trip behind vintage covered wagons would be fun. I do prefer steam but I enjoy rail travel even by Amtrak.

Doug vV

4501 traveled from Chattanooga to NS' Jellico line for filming "Rocket Boys" in 1997.

I should add the caveat that for that move, the 4501 was only allowed to work steam to lubricate the cylinders. Power was provided by an NS high hood GP unit.

Funny you should mention the Claytors. I was just thinking about 80's big steam gurus.
Everywhere I went these past few days (not to get off the topic) but the number #722 kept popping up. Gotta play that number.
Anyway, what happened to them?
How about Doyle McCormick too?
And has anyone heard from Ross with his YRE? Can't find any further info on his site. Biodiesel prices too high?
Shoulda stuck with coal!

I recall that the cancellation of the NS steam program happened after some of the passenger cars, while not occupied, were sideswiped by a freight derailment on an adjacent yard track. This may have been the final scare.

Jim, It wasn't a sideswipe, it was a ramming. A coal train was sent down the wrong track into the blue-flagged steam train. Several cars were damaged, and one Roanoke Chapter NRHS coach was totaled. As Chapter president at that time I had the dubious honor of having to negotiate the settlement on that car. I have to say that my own board was much harder to deal with than the NS officials. The accident was certainly a contributing factor to the death of the Steam Program.

I think that many of us can sympathize with this one. :-)