I would be interested to know if anybody has any information on,or photos of,black steam locomotive engineers,fireman,or hostlers,any era.

I already know that black men in most places were forbidden to be promoted as engineers,and that the highest they could get at the time was fireman or brakemen. I had several in my family and I really hate that I was so young when they died that I did not get as good appreciation for what they did as I would now.If anybody could assist me,I would appreciate it. Thanks!

kbcotton@flash.net

In 1995, I authored a 150-page senior thesis on the history of black railroaders and travelers in Pennsylvania during the 19th and mid-20th centuries. A copy of this MS is currently in the holdings of the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania Archives. Also, a new scholarly book on African American railroad workers was released last year by Harvard University Press (check their website). The other two oral histories published in recent years are Miles of Smiles, Years of Struggle by Jack Santino and Those Pullman Blues by David Pereta. Both are highly recommended reading.

K.R. Bell
Railroad Museum of PA

> I would be interested to know if anybody
> has any information on,or photos of,black
> steam locomotive engineers,fireman,or
> hostlers,any era.

> I already know that black men in most places
> were forbidden to be promoted as
> engineers,and that the highest they could
> get at the time was fireman or brakemen. I
> had several in my family and I really hate
> that I was so young when they died that I
> did not get as good appreciation for what
> they did as I would now.If anybody could
> assist me,I would appreciate it. Thanks!

Every picture of the Rockton and Rion RR showed both black engineers and firemen. On many shortlines and logging operations in the Deep South and East Texas (of all places), black men labored in occupations often closed to them on the mainlines.

I have often thought that it would be a very enlightening study to explore the relationships between the men of different races working as closely as enginemen had to in the days of handbombed coal burners in the Jim Crow South.

In other words, just how did Sim Webb get along with John Luther Jones?

On a related note, has there been anykind of comprehensive study of the Japanese shopmen extensivly employed by the western roads in California. I seem to recall a Santa Fe report about the inherent "qualities" of "Nipponese" shopmen: very skilled machinists, worked cheaper, and smaller size made them excellent for going inside of boilers.

lorija799@aol.com

> I have often thought that it would be a very
> enlightening study to explore the
> relationships between the men of different
> races working as closely as enginemen had to
> in the days of handbombed coal burners in
> the Jim Crow South.

> In other words, just how did Sim Webb get
> along with John Luther Jones?

One study I can think of is the Chinese who worked on the Transcontential Railroad. We have a tape, titled "Iron Road", which is an episode from public television. They talked about the qualities of the chinese workers that made them suited for the work of building the railroad, along with the cultural differences that seperated them from other workers.

According to the episode, one of the chinese workers went back to China, and formed a railroad there as well.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

> I would be interested to know if anybody
> has any information on,or photos of,black
> steam locomotive engineers,fireman,or
> hostlers,any era.
I'm sure I can find you pictures of a black engineer and several firemen - even a black conductor! Currently one of our engineers and one of our firemen are black. In the past we had a black conductor and two other black firemen - in fact, one of these former firemen is now an engineer for Amtrak.

Chester Ray Cash Jr. was a fireman when I came to the Huckleberry RR, and was promoted to engineer about 9 years ago. Cedric Polite hired on as a village fireman about 18 months ago and quickly qualified as a locomotive fireman. It is interesting to watch the reaction of people when they come through the depot. Genesee County is around 20% black and our ridership reflects this. I enjoy seeing young faces light up when they see the engineer. On the other hand, we do see some prejudiced people. One night I was filling in for a sick fireman. An older white male customer came up to the cab after the trip and complimented me on the smooth trip, assuming I had run it. I told him go tell the engineer, he's down oiling around - I'm the fireman. Sad to say, he never did say anything to Chester.
At the Huck we feel race isn't an issue. What IS important is that people who work with us understand Responsibility!

Martyhuck@aol.com

> I'm sure I can find you pictures of a black
> engineer and several firemen - even a black
> conductor! Currently one of our engineers
> and one of our firemen are black. In the
> past we had a black conductor and two other
> black firemen - in fact, one of these former
> firemen is now an engineer for Amtrak.

> Chester Ray Cash Jr. was a fireman when I
> came to the Huckleberry RR, and was promoted
> to engineer about 9 years ago. Cedric Polite
> hired on as a village fireman about 18
> months ago and quickly qualified as a
> locomotive fireman. It is interesting to
> watch the reaction of people when they come
> through the depot. Genesee County is around
> 20% black and our ridership reflects this. I
> enjoy seeing young faces light up when they
> see the engineer. On the other hand, we do
> see some prejudiced people. One night I was
> filling in for a sick fireman. An older
> white male customer came up to the cab after
> the trip and complimented me on the smooth
> trip, assuming I had run it. I told him go
> tell the engineer, he's down oiling around -
> I'm the fireman. Sad to say, he never did
> say anything to Chester.
> At the Huck we feel race isn't an issue.
> What IS important is that people who work
> with us understand Responsibility!

As an engineer for the Austin and Texas Central Railroad( yes I do run the 786),I have also seen those reactions from some passengers on the train,and I just chalk it up to old age and old ideas.

When I first started railroading in college,I was the first black conductor on this particular line,and had some interesting exchanges with passengers that first year. Over the years just looking at those dark faces as I pulled up with either steam or diesel made me swell with pride,and they always seem shocked to find a black man running the train.

One of these days,I'm going to find a way to get more Black Americans interested in railroading,steam railroading in particular. If you want to swap pics,drop me a line at my e-mail addy.......

kbcotton@flash.net

> In 1995, I authored a 150-page senior thesis
> on the history of black railroaders and
> travelers in Pennsylvania during the 19th
> and mid-20th centuries. A copy of this MS is
> currently in the holdings of the Railroad
> Museum of Pennsylvania Archives. Also, a new
> scholarly book on African American railroad
> workers was released last year by Harvard
> University Press (check their website). The
> other two oral histories published in recent
> years are Miles of Smiles, Years of Struggle
> by Jack Santino and Those Pullman Blues by
> David Pereta. Both are highly recommended
> reading.

> K.R. Bell
> Railroad Museum of PA

K.R.:

thanks for the information!

kbcotton@flash.net

I had the good fortune to hear an address by Jack Santino at a dinner of the 20th Century Railroad Club a few years back, and it changed my attitude toward how to interpret and make use of old railroad equipment. To the audience of railfans, Santino spoke of the number of preserved diners and sleepers, displayed or operated with no mention of what went on inside them, and who made them work.

Recently the Steam Railroading Institute was generously given one of the few surviving non-Amtraked sleeping cars, the C&O 10-6 City of Ashland. We debated whether this fit into our program, which is oriented at motive power, but we want badly to have Railcamp-style programs for youth groups that involve several days' stay, and figured that Pullman sleeping accommodations would add greatly to the quality of the experience. (Once we deal with the plumbing, air-conditioning, and flaking paint.)

But there is another motivation.

Recently the Henry Ford Museum spent over $300,000 for the Montgomery, AL bus that is believed to have been the one that Rosa Parks was arrested on. It may cost another $100,000 or $200,000 to make the bus presentable, maybe even operable. Those are eye-popping numbers in the history museum business, but I'm convinced this is a wise investment for that institution, on a couple grounds.

On a purely commercial level, the bus will probably attract enough visitation to make it a sound business proposition. Already it has been the centerpiece of some high-ticket fund-raisers. More importantly, a Montgomery transit bus is a key artifact for telling the story of the civil rights movement. It is worth something to be able to say, "Fity years ago, on this bus . . ."

The same thing is true of any Pullman car. One of the theses of Santino's book is that the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters was a main actor in the civil rights struggle. It is not possible to tell that story without mentioning A. Philip Randolph.

When looking at our new Pullman car, and surveying 140 feet of rusting siding and rotting plywood floor, passenger-car aces have asked us, more or less, Are you nuts? We asked that of ourselves.

I think not. Ours will be the only sleeping car on public exhibit in Michigan. If anyone wants something to help children understand what a sleeping-car porter was, they will want to come to us. Donors will pay to help them do that, maybe enough to pay for a lot of wire-welding.

We'll see if we have the courage to tell a pack of visiting Boy Scouts, "By the way, one of you gets to be the porter. You don't get a room, just this shelf. We'll ring this buzzer when we want something all night long. And here's your shoe polish. Get shinin.'"

Aarne H. Frobom
The Steam Railroading Institute
P. O. Box 665
Owosso, MI 48867-0665

froboma@mdot.state.mi.us

Kenneth,

If you come up with something, let us know. Our museum is in a predomanently black neighborhood. There are many youngsters I see as I come and go that I would love to have helping us with plant projects, restoration and as they age, operations. We have not done an exemplary job of reaching out to our community like we could. What community involvement do others out there perform?

http://www.oerm.org
wyld@oc-net.com

I recently passed through the Montgomery area as was very disappointed to discover that the home hangar and field of the Tuckaseegee Airmen was falling apart, speaking of black history and transportation.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> Kenneth,

> If you come up with something, let us know.
> Our museum is in a predomanently black
> neighborhood. There are many youngsters I
> see as I come and go that I would love to
> have helping us with plant projects,
> restoration and as they age, operations. We
> have not done an exemplary job of reaching
> out to our community like we could.

Ditto. Savannah is 60 % black and the main street closest to the roundhouse was the main Black commercial artery. We don't do much interpretation at all yet, and it seems that while we begin to develop it is the time to make sure it is inclusive.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

As I was browsing thru the Cleveland photo archive I came across a poster from 1859 about the original on trial "abolitionists" coming back from their trial in Washington ... everybody report to the Oberlin depot to greet them on their return!!! I was in that depot this afternoon ... wonder what else that building has seen!



lamontdc@adelphia.net

> I have often thought that it would be a very
> enlightening study to explore the
> relationships between the men of different
> races working as closely as enginemen had to
> in the days of handbombed coal burners in
> the Jim Crow South.

The Central Pacific Railroad Photographic History Museum has a web page entitled "Chinese-American Contribution to the Transcontinental Railroad" with a ton of information and additional links. The URL is:
http://cprr.org/Museum/Chinese.html

There is also an article about Japanese railroad and mine workers during World War II at this site:
http://www.ncmonline.com/special-report ... rkers.html
Some of the documentation of the war-time firings of railroad workers was found in the archives of the Nevada Northern Railway that are part of the state of Nevada collection at the East Ely Railroad Depot Museum.


Nevada Northern & Railroaods of White Pine County
kalbran1@san.rr.com

The B&O Museum is in the inner city. Some years ago I heard John Hankey talk about working at the museum and having local school children visit the museum. The kids were absolutely surprised to hear a white man speak about Plessy v Ferguson when talking about the combine car built to fulfill the "sperate but equal" standard. Here was something that the kids knew all about from their American history classes and did not expect to hear about from a white man at a railroad museum.

BN


bnorden49@earthlink.net

> Ditto. Savannah is 60 % black and the main
> street closest to the roundhouse was the
> main Black commercial artery. We don't do
> much interpretation at all yet, and it seems
> that while we begin to develop it is the
> time to make sure it is inclusive.

> Dave

To Dave and everyone:

One of the biggest problems I see is getting minorities to participate in helping to interpret,operate,and consult on things of this nature.

What you might want to do is to get some of the community leaders and invite them to the museum and get some insight as to how to get the minority community involved in the interpretation of what railroading means to the Black community,and explaining the links that black railroaders played in building and running railroads from the very beginning.

Perhaps staging an open house for the community expressly for this purpose would help to build and education and volunteer,and contribution base that would also educate as well as show that you want to realisticly interpret the black experience as it pertains to railroading.

I'm currently working on a way to have an exhibit on Black railroaders here in Texas,perhaps a gathering of retired black railroaders to discuss their experiences and challenges of working for railroads in the steam age.

Whether by omission or comission,there are few black railroaders either working on excursion steam,running or firing excursion steam. This gives the perception(which may not be true) that this is something that only white males and females are allowed to participate in. To reach the Black community,this perception needs to be changed. Sorry about the long post,but I feel that it is something that needed to be addressed at this time.
In all your pictures of excursion steam,how many men or women of color have you seen either operating of firing in the modern era?

I don't mean on a tourist railraod,but on mainline steam?

kbcotton@flash.net