Say it ain't so, Phil!
http://www.altamontpress.com/discussion ... #msg-16929
Nothing on the official website yet, though: http://www.thetrain.com/learnmore/fleet/

oh i assure you its true seeing as i was one of the many loco shop employees that was laid off today.

Man, for what it's worth, I'm sorry to hear that, for the human as well as "fun" cost. Wow, i didn't see this coming at all, and I'm glad I rode this last year for the first (and I guess now only) time...

It is my understanding that there is no steam in 2009 and no further decisions beyond it.

Robby

I had the privilege and pleasure of being the guest of Mr. Sam Lanter,CMO of the GCRR on 8/28 and 8/29 and thanks to Sam spent an entire day on the head end (#29) and was very impressed with the professionalism evident throughout the operation.

The motive power and equipment were in top notch condition as was the track, they ran on schedule to the second and all the employees were well trained and gave great service. I spent the 29th. as a paying guest on the "Chief", their open platform extra fare rear end car and was very impressed with the service.

To my knowledge the sale to Mr. Anshutz has not yet closed so I'm a little confused by these layoffs. There's no doubt that running steam adds to the cost of the operation vs. straight diesel, BUT a lot depends on what product you're promoting to the customer, as steam adds that intangible "living history" link to the past and the "nostalgia" factor that's absent with diesels. It would appear that the bean counters prevailed and that's a darn shame as this was the one remaining place in all America where one could see something reasonably close to mainline steam in action on a regular basis.

Perhaps if we get a petition together we can convince Mr. Anshutz to reverse this decision???

Ross Rowland

Hmmm. Is this an echo of the Claytor effect at N&W? That is - once steam lost its patronage through the Biglers was there no support in the line management to keep it going?

Wesley

Knowing nothing more than has been reported here Wes, I'd be skeptical about any single cause for it. Probably a combination of things that made shrinking the operating scope while retaining the majority of revenue more attractive than providing the greater range of audience pleasing attributes. Most riders ride because its the GRAND CANYON, no matter what pulls the train.

Regardless of motive power, non-commuter railroads are nostalgic for most of the public today. A real "wild west" style attraction with wood burning moguls hauling 48 foot long wooden cars with open windows probably is too much reality for more than short term consumption anyhow.

dave

I wonder what Anschitz has in mind for the property and equipment, but not about his goal -$$$. Perhaps we'll see light rail to the Canyon? Ironically, that would be good for the Canyon because it would reduce traffic and pollution.

If the sale closes, I look for all of the currently unused locomotives and rolling stock to go on sale next year and all of the steam locomotives and steam shop equipment the following year.

In Colorado, many of us still remember the loss of the Rio Grande and the looting of Qwest!

No cheer here, Roger

Well, I'm not prepared to freak out yet, and I think you're right Dave. With the economy the way it is and fuel prices what they are, if I was running things there and had to implement cost saving measures to keep the doors open and the trains running, well...the thing is, it's a business, and it has to run like one. If it costs $15 per mile (I don't know how much it costs) and steam costs $17.50, on a 120 mile round trip, I'm parkin' the steam. With every other concievable cost of running the operation going up, and income dropping off, I don't see where they have a choice.
Now if they were passing out the cutting torches, I would be worried, but if the announcement said no steam for the 2009 season, maybe they're just waiting for the 'climate" to improve...

Looking for the bright side....Dave

Discontinuing steam operation probably was a very wise business decision. GCRY is in business to make money, not to please rail fans.

Unfortunately steam locomotives on museum or tourist trains fall under the same laws of physics and economics that resulted in their replacement by diesel power on railroads world wide.

On GCRY probably well under 1% of passengers were attracted by steam locomotives. Probably 99+% come for a train ride to the Grand Canyon. They don't know what's on the front of the train and don't care.

Steam lasted in China much longer than in the rest of the world for reasons that were unique to China. That country has lots of coal but almost no oil. Petroleum must be imported. Until recently China did not earn enough foreign exchange to buy much oil.

The large amount of labor required to maintain steam locomotives also was useful for the country. China had a full employment policy that has been changed recently. In the old days I watched a crew of gardeners in Shanghai cutting grass in a public park with scissors. They were fully employed. The same principle applied to jobs repairing steam locomotives.

fk

While steam is undoubtedly more expensive to operate in this scenario, GCRY is one of the only tourist railways in the U.S. to make significant efforts to minimize their steam operating costs. Both 29 and 4960 have been significantly upgraded in the last few years with Lempor exhausts, improved oil firing systems, and recently with feedwater heaters. From all I've read, these improvements have been 100% successful and have clearly proven their worth. I sure hate to see that effort get thrown out.

The one other significant reduction I can think of that they could make would be to go to coal firing, but that'd open up a whole 'nother set of problems for them to deal with.

Is there any other tourist railroad that uses steam this intensively that could put these engines to good use?

Without steam the operation never would have gotten off the ground, we have all heard the stories of the marathon rebuilds to get the steam engine running for opening day. Business is about more then the bottom line, at least is used to be. Steam operations at the GCRY were unique, they both preserved steam and worked on it's advance forward into the 21st century. Running F40's to the canyon is not railway preservation, it is a commuter line into the national park with a hoaky wild west show at the start. If they are laying off employees then steam is probably dead there. With steam the people behind the operation are really more important then anything else. With money and talent the mechanical condition of the machine is a variable that can be improved quite easily. GCRY has proven time and time again they had great steam talent that could do really great things. No, once the people move on steam is likely to be gone for good, especially if the new management gets better profits without it.

I'm sure they will make better revenues without steam, but I for one will never give them a dime.

And you know...........

........ I was prepping a post for next April 1st with this news, with Anschutz ditching the steam for Rio Grande-painted FP9's.......... <:-(

I had pushed my stay in Arizona this past May specifically to ride steam to the Grand Canyon; we got word that the steamer wasn't running the day we had our reservations (mechanical issues), and canceled.

Now, maybe someday when I'm president of that long-threatened F40PH Preservation Society, I might finally ride that line......

I think the sale has already closed. John Craft posted the following on the Narrow Gauge Discussion Board to correct and clarify one of my posts:

Just a gut feeling, and not based on any data whatsoever, but I'm sure steam has some significant draw to the GCRY. The matched FPA4's are beautiful, but steam is a total experience, and in the "wild west", it was a perfect match for Williams, Arizona. Expensive to run or not, I would have to believe that a significant number of tourists are attracted to the GCRY because they get to hear and see locomotives that are a cornerstone of the "old west" experience. Servicing steam, making it safe, providing the maintenance, meeting regs for steam locos, would be over the top. Hopefully, GCRY will store their locomotives in serviceable condition and an upturn in the economy will draw them back into service.