Here is what I propose for someone to ask Steamtown.
I suggest that Jersey Steam, Bern, with CNJ 113 and Mr. Rowland go to the director of Steamtown and ask if they can bring their locomotives there to operate. Think about 113 and 26 just putting on a show every weekend moving cars around the yard all day! Two 0-6-0 back in action! Steamtown is really set up for demos in the yard with the high advantage points! Mr Rowland can bring 614 up and when the Lackawanna cut-off is backup and running in 2012 he can run 614 on the cut-off on the weekends. Nice long run for that big steamer.

My second part is to get a Friends of Steamtown society going and we look at what they have and save what is important! Decide what cars we could use and keep them and scrap the rest. Locomotives I wouldn’t scrap one, I’m just that way.
I don't feel that this is not an impossible dream but something that could be worked out.

Steve B.

I predict the most impossible part of your dream is the Lackawanna Cutoff will actually be running by 2012!

Steve, you are probably right! But the environmental impact is good for the tracks to be re-done from Andover to Port Morris. So they should start re-doing the tracks and station at Port Morris next year.

Steve B.

I have long thought that a stable non-profit group that works to promote the historic site and collection is probably the best thing for it. I wonder to what extent it could be successful.

The progress made by friends groups for the C&TS and the EBT would be nice to see at a place like Steamtown. Perhaps the way to do this is to offer greater separation - establish a privately owned rail yard (hopefully with a shop) in the Scranton area, deacquisition and move the restorable but non-priority equipment from Steamtown, restore them within their own management structure, and then donate fully restored equipment to Steamtown as they are completed. Perhaps it is unfortunate that duplication of facilities would happen, but it accomplishes several things. It frees Steamtown of shabby equipment that would never be restored in the current economic scenario, eliminates the multi-leveled governmental issues for a volunteer group, provides opportunities for local and individual control of project outcomes, and offers a way to establish a responsible and positive relationship between the volunteer group and the governmental agency.

The FEBT existed and developed relationships for quite a while before it was permitted to undertake the extensive restoration work it does today. There are quite a few large sites in public ownership, where the volunteers do not get as involved, or stay as long, as they do at privately managed non-profits. This is too bad because often these public sites have some of the best artifacts and resources, declining in unchecked decay while resources are shrinking.

Speaking of resources, does the Steamtown Foundation still exist? Perhaps they could fund the construction of a carbarn to help stabilize the condition of the collection.
O Anderson

If we could get our act together I think we could get a good size work force of volunteers together to help Steamtown. I don't feel you would need a seperate place. From my dealing so far with them they love the volunteers and can do quite a bit in the shops. If you ever get the chance, get the tour of the shops. I don't think there are too many preservation shops that can match the size and equipment they have.

I'd agree, from what's been said here it's a very good idea to have some sort of support organization a-la "Friends of Steamtown". For instance if it's really true that Steamtown can't advertise, then somebody ought to be taking that on.

What's the law regarding a non-profit which is a support organization for a government organ? Does it qualify for tax-exempt status? I've always wondered about Friends of the East Broad Top, it seems like they're close to the edge of supporting a for-profit business.

I would encourage anyone who is so inclined to volunteer at Scranton and contribute whatever they can to the cause. It can't hurt.

Ross Rowland

Mr. Rowland, I agree with you. But if we can get organized with clear goals, we can make a volunteer work a great thing.

One place those trying to set up a restoration area might look to is down the road at Cass, West Virginia, where the Mountain State Railroad & Logging Historical Society http://www.msrlha.org/ works with the state park system. They have created the logging camp site at Whittaker with restored and recreated equipment. They are restoring Cass' Climax locomotive to operating condition. They helped to restore the wye at Bald Knob to a usable condition. They funded and built a shop in which to do restoration work and then donated it to the state. The state in turn allows them the use of the facility for their restoration projects. As I understand it when MSRLHA first proposed the restoration shop, the state's reaction was a little skeptical. Kind of like who are you, how serious are you, are you just dreaming or will you actually produce? These are the kinds of questions the National Park Service will also have. The NPS would probably be reassured by being able to talk to the WVa State Parks System about any concerns they might have about a Friends group.Those forming a Friends group at Steamtown should not be surprised that they will be expected to prove themselves. It will take time and energy, but it can be done.

While pitching in and helping out at Steamtown sounds like a great idea, (I would love to volunteer and get dirty doing whatever) aren't there some kind of stipulations that the Parks Department or Department of The Interior (whatever Govt branch runs Steamtown) with volunteering at a Government paid institution? Would they just allow any Tom, Dick, or Harry to just show up with a scraper or paint brush and go to town on the Big Boy or whatever engine we would like?
There must be lots of paperwork to go through and contracts to sign to insure everyone's safety while climbing, stretching, stooping, squatting, reaching and leaning on, near and around display items or active equipment. By the time all those proposals and contracts are FINALLY laid out and have been typed up and the first volunteer show up with a sand blaster in hand, it will be 2012 the Lackawanna Cutoff will be open for business...again.

And let's not forget the Federally mandated paint booth. I talked with one outfit that told me they were planning to install one for their equipment, but what killed the deal was, according to the boss, "... not the cost of the booth itself, but the annual maintenance costs--inspections, certification, filters, coveralls, etc.--and that's just to have the option of painting our stuff, never mind actually painting it."

Steve, see inserted.

[quote="SteveRG"]While pitching in and helping out at Steamtown sounds like a great idea, (I would love to volunteer and get dirty doing whatever) aren't there some kind of stipulations that the Parks Department or Department of The Interior (whatever Govt branch runs Steamtown) with volunteering at a Government paid institution?

There are no true stipulations. A volunteer must fill out a release paper and volunteer form. They also should keep track of their hours on the volunteer time sheet..

Would they just allow any Tom, Dick, or Harry to just show up with a scraper or paint brush and go to town on the Big Boy or whatever engine we would like?

No. The volunteer would have to help out in the shop as this is where most of the help is needed.



There must be lots of paperwork to go through and contracts to sign to insure everyone's safety while climbing, stretching, stooping, squatting, reaching and leaning on, near and around display items or active equipment.

See the first response about paperwork

I have the volunteer form from Steamtown. They have a one day required training class held once a quarter, November, January, April and July. After that you are good to go.
You must bring your own steel toe boots and gloves.

Alex, they have a certified paint booth and sandblast booth for lead paint removal and asbestos removal. So you can see some of that money has been going into stuff the public doesn't see all the time.

So if there is money that is allocated for supplies for the volunteers to work on said pieces of equipment, then it is NOT wasted, just that the public cannot see it. Consider all the pieces that lie waiting for service, restoration or even for a squirt of oil, Steamtown DOES have quite an impressive amount of engines and rolling stock, just no time to restore every single piece whereas some other museums and or tourist lines only have a few engines and a minimal fleet of cars to work on, on a yearly basis. For folks in the private sector, their problems are even less. Sure if you have the money, fix your engine or dining car or what ever you have, either display it or run it...Does one actually think that, while it is a vision that can be attained at Steamtown, every engine can be running and ever car rolling? The NPS does what it can with the budget it has. Yes, granted it has been, what, over something like 15 years and the display yard has become a virtual graveyard, but give them a break! What other museum can offer mainline excursions in that area? I know of a few out west, but none like Steamtown. We should volunteer. We should stop bickering and complaining about what should be done with it and help out. Hell, RRMPA has people volunteering, why can't Steamtown? Granted one is state owned one is US owned, but who cares? What's the big freaking deal?
We all share a love of this hobby...we want to do our part whether it is a complete rebuild to operational status or cosmetic...what does it matter?

That's the spirit Steve! C'mon down and volunteer.
There are only 10 employees in the shop that do a lot of work. They keep two mainline steam locomotives and a diesel running, sometimes all on the same day. That means all necessary boiler washes and daily/monthly,annual inspections. If something is not right, they fix it so that it is ready to run the next time it is needed. They maintain 10 passenger cars for excursion and local train ride use. Again, full daily inspection and testing. And, they are restoring a steam locomotive AND tender. I'm talking full restoration. Plus, when shop equipment is in need of repair, those same ten people fix it too. A good portion of the same shop personnel are involved in railroad operations as well. So, with all that to do, it sure is nice to have volunteers to help. If you were to come down prepared to work (only steel toed shoes are required, they supply everything else but lunch), they would surely could get you involved. They are a good bunch and good guys to work with.

BTW, the required test for volunteers is mainly for the railroad operations volunteers. You would have to take some of the basic training that comes up each spring with regards to safety in the railyard. If the volunteer coordinator is in the day you show up so that you could sign your release, chances are you could be put to work that day.

I hope this is informative to anyone wishing to help at Steamtown.