Quick update on this exciting auction:

The car (Stone & Webster car body in Providence, RI) is still for sale - as of Monday afternoon it's at about $4,500 (but reserve not yet met). Moreover, the conditions have changed dramatically. The owner withdrew the requirement that it be dismantled, instead he'll move it anywhere in the lower 48 for FREE. (Does he have any experience with moving car bodies?) If that's the case, it might be worth a second look. Auction ends in four days.



e-Bay Auction

This car can be damaged very easily by clueless movers. Lifting on the front bumper will cause the platform to break off. A large fork lift can undload the car just as easily as a crane.

> Quick update on this exciting auction:

> The car (Stone & Webster car body in
> Providence, RI) is still for sale - as of
> Monday afternoon it's at about $4,500 (but
> reserve not yet met). Moreover, the
> conditions have changed dramatically. The
> owner withdrew the requirement that it be
> dismantled, instead he'll move it anywhere
> in the lower 48 for FREE. (Does he have any
> experience with moving car bodies?) If
> that's the case, it might be worth a second
> look. Auction ends in four days.


Dallas 2002 ARM Convention - October 23-26, 2002 -

tnold@bigfoot.com

I feel that I have uncovered a case of auction fraud here. Why did the seller relist the streetcar after it was won by a bidder named Chuckrider on Feb. 15th? Does he have a second streetcar that he forgot to mention?

Also, if you look on the information or "ME" page for Chuckrider, you'll notice that he sells glow sticks. If you look at the "ME" page for a bidder called Unhuib (who is the current high bidder on the second listing) he also sells glow sticks.

I believe that this seller has shill acounts or associates who are trying to run up the price of the car. It is sad to see this car in the hands of an unscrupulous merchant, but buyer beware. As much as I would like to see this car preserved, there are other Stone & Webster cars out there to be had rather than get involved with this character.

I have asked EBay to investigate my concerns and I will report back with any information which they send to me.

Andy

Dallas 2002 ARM Convention - October 23-26, 2002 -

tnold@bigfoot.com

Mr. Nold, it appears as if your investigative skills paid off on this one. I checked the auction and it now says this is an invalid item. Who knows, you may have saved someone some money and some grief.

God Bless,
Gerald W. Kopiasz
Heartland Railroad Historical Society

> I feel that I have uncovered a case of
> auction fraud here. Why did the seller
> relist the streetcar after it was won by a
> bidder named Chuckrider on Feb. 15th? Does
> he have a second streetcar that he forgot to
> mention?

> Also, if you look on the information or
> "ME" page for Chuckrider, you'll
> notice that he sells glow sticks. If you
> look at the "ME" page for a bidder
> called Unhuib (who is the current high
> bidder on the second listing) he also sells
> glow sticks.

> I believe that this seller has shill acounts
> or associates who are trying to run up the
> price of the car. It is sad to see this car
> in the hands of an unscrupulous merchant,
> but buyer beware. As much as I would like to
> see this car preserved, there are other
> Stone & Webster cars out there to be had
> rather than get involved with this
> character.

> I have asked EBay to investigate my concerns
> and I will report back with any information
> which they send to me.

> Andy


hrrhs@aol.com

Yeah, but I don't feel very good about it. I would like to see someone get the car, but I don't think the owner needs to artificially inflate the price to do it.

The first time Ebay investigated it, the spent a little over an hour and decided that no fraud was involved. I sent a strongly worded email requesting a second look and this was the reply that I received. What a bunch of horsehockey (but at least they appear to have taken action):

I have re-investigated your complaint and please be assured that we have
taken appropriate action in accordance with our site policies. Our
records indicate the users you are reporting are no longer registered
eBay users.

As you may know, we are unable to provide specific information regarding
the result of our investigation to third party members. Please
understand that this is for the protection of all eBay users.

> Mr. Nold, it appears as if your
> investigative skills paid off on this one. I
> checked the auction and it now says this is
> an invalid item. Who knows, you may have
> saved someone some money and some grief.

> God Bless,
> Gerald W. Kopiasz
> Heartland Railroad Historical Society


Dallas 2002 ARM Convention - October 23-26, 2002 -
tnold@bigfoot.com

I agree, it would be nice if there was a good ending to this situation. But it is equally nice not to see someone with good intentions get screwed over in the process. Especially if that person would take on a chicken coop as a contingency.

God Bless,
Gerald Kopiasz, President
Heartland Railroad Historical Society

> Yeah, but I don't feel very good about it. I
> would like to see someone get the car, but I
> don't think the owner needs to artificially
> inflate the price to do it.

> The first time Ebay investigated it, the
> spent a little over an hour and decided that
> no fraud was involved. I sent a strongly
> worded email requesting a second look and
> this was the reply that I received. What a
> bunch of horsehockey (but at least they
> appear to have taken action):

> I have re-investigated your complaint and
> please be assured that we have
> taken appropriate action in accordance with
> our site policies. Our
> records indicate the users you are reporting
> are no longer registered
> eBay users.

> As you may know, we are unable to provide
> specific information regarding
> the result of our investigation to third
> party members. Please
> understand that this is for the protection
> of all eBay users.


hrrhs@aol.com

You guys did a nice job catching this apparent fraud. We recently recovered a stolen bell from one of our locomotives. Seeing it on ebay, the description pretty much said it was stolen and indicated exactly what locomotive it was removed from. eBay was of little help. Armed with minimal data we were able to locate the seller's address, called the local police and the bell was recovered within a day. eBay itself was of little help. They must be held accountable in such situations.

J.R. May
Chairman,
NJMT (Pine Creek RR)

> I agree, it would be nice if there was a
> good ending to this situation. But it is
> equally nice not to see someone with good
> intentions get screwed over in the process.
> Especially if that person would take on a
> chicken coop as a contingency.

> God Bless,
> Gerald Kopiasz, President
> Heartland Railroad Historical Society


jrmay@njmt.org

The only thing Ebay cares about is their percentage when a sale is made. Other than that fraud or no fraud they don't care. Actually the more inflated the price the better it is for ebay.

robert@trainorders.com

> eBay itself
> was of little help. They must be held
> accountable in such situations.

> J.R. May
> Chairman,
> NJMT (Pine Creek RR)

Be careful what you ask for, J.R.

If Internet law were changed to hold the site owner responsible for legalities of commerce or messages trafficed by users, it could lead to a slippery-slope ending any user-based content, including message boards like these.

Copperation in investigation is one thing, liability is another.

The day liability laws change, people like Hume will be forced to kill sites like this, as any libelous or slanderous posts will reflect on RYPN, as well. You can see where this gets scary.

Besides, the last thing we need to do in America is give the lawyers yet another party to sue.

Rob Davis

trains@robertjohndavis.com

> > Besides, the last thing we need to do in
> America is give the lawyers yet another
> party to sue.

>
Aw, c'mon! If you get rid of all the sleazy plaintiff's lawyers, then defense lawyers like me will have to find honest work. Egads!

Kevinmccabe@avenew.com

Ebay is funny. I buy some things off there. Mostly music related items. But it's strange how they say you can't sell CD-Rs on Ebay, yet people sell copies of video tapes on there. Isn't that the same thing? I mean really it is.

Jeff Lisowski
West Chester, Pa


unfunkyufo76@hotmail.com

One thing Ebay seems to get really huffy about is people selling current catalogs (people will buy then direct, not through auctions).

But, beyond cancelling people's accounts, and refunding the seller's fees there really isn't all that much they CAN do.

There are two kinds of bad guys on ebay, the dumb greedy bums, and the "pros". The bums are fairly easy to catch (this fellow sounds like one). The pros probably never will get nailed.

Just one word of caution. When you look at an article such as a bell or whistle on eBay, consider the idea that it may have been stolen either recently or ages ago. NJMT now keeps all our locomotives locked up and out of site due to the theft of a bell off our Ely-Thomas Shay #6. I'd like to find that bell and I do track eBay for it.

Someday we will find it. Funny thing is....its not even a pretty bell. Looks like a paint can. But it belongs on our shay.

J.R.

> One thing Ebay seems to get really huffy
> about is people selling current catalogs
> (people will buy then direct, not through
> auctions).

> But, beyond cancelling people's accounts,
> and refunding the seller's fees there really
> isn't all that much they CAN do.

> There are two kinds of bad guys on ebay, the
> dumb greedy bums, and the "pros".
> The bums are fairly easy to catch (this
> fellow sounds like one). The pros probably
> never will get nailed.


jrmay@njmt.org